No right of access over footpath to house!

Grizebeck

Just buy it move on

NameUnavailable

sarlea said:

Is the "unadopted shared footpath" one which runs parallel to the road, or does it go off in a different direction?  Is the road itself adopted?

See blue shaded path in attached image. Yes the road is adopted.

What is the evidence that the shared footpath isn't adopted?

The county council highways map shows that the footpath is not adopted. I have asked for confirmation from the council that we do have a right of access over the footpath (solictor's words), though I don't know if they own the footpath. It would have been owned by the council originally.

How much would the indemnity policy cost?

The cost of the plicy is £170 plus legal fees (£75 + VAT), so £260 in total.

I hate having to pay for something that isn't needed, especially on top of the legal fees we've already stacked up with the previous 2 buyers pulling out. The previous buyers solicitors never raised an issue with front access. They pulled out due to issues with rear vehicular access - but that's another story. It's definitely not an easy sale.

This house is becoming a real millstone around our necks. It's been empty since our father passed away in October  2021. If the buyers insist on the indemnity policy, why can't they pay for it themselves? Afterall it's them that will get the perceived "benefit", not us.

You are trying to sell the property which has a 'defect' - who should pay for resolving that is down to you. Let's say there was a hole in the roof, the buyers might ask you to have that fixed before they exchange, or they might ask for ££££ to cover the cost of repair.

If you don't want to pay for the policy then just tell them the access has not been an issue and if they want a silly insurance policy for it then they can pay for it yourselves. Of course their solicitors advice may vary and if they are getting a mortgage that might be affected as well.

Put another way, if you were buying the house, what would you do? Happily proceed with a potential problem over access or expect the seller to resolve the issue first?

It looks like rear access by a car could be possible but would be via the access for some garages, which you almost certainly don't have any right of way over, so that would be a lot more challenging!

Tiglet2

@sarlea
Are there some properties that are still owned by the Council in this area?  Because it looks to me as though the Council still own some of the properties, as well as owning the access path.  It costs £3 to download a copy of the title and I would suggest that you download a copy of ON177288 to see if there are any references on this register regarding access to the properties over this path.

If the council are the owners of the path, then they don't need to "adopt" it, it is already theirs.  If the title above shows that all the properties have rights to access this path, then I don't see what the problem is.  You could (your solicitor) apply for prescriptive rights as the path has been used for in excess of 20 years.  However, this would delay the sale by a few months.

As the seller, it is your legal issue to address.  If the buyer's solicitor is agreeable to an indemnity policy (if there is a lender involved, they may not accept an indemnity policy), I would snap their arm off - £260 is a cheap price to pay to proceed with this buyer.  It is very unlikely the buyer's solicitor will proceed to an exchange of contracts without you/your solicitor sorting out this problem.

fourmarks

sarlea said:

The cost of the plicy is £170 plus legal fees (£75 + VAT), so £260 in total.

I hate having to pay for something that isn't needed, especially on top of the legal fees we've already stacked up with the previous 2 buyers pulling out. The previous buyers solicitors never raised an issue with front access. They pulled out due to issues with rear vehicular access - but that's another story. It's definitely not an easy sale.

This house is becoming a real millstone around our necks. It's been empty since our father passed away in October  2021. If the buyers insist on the indemnity policy, why can't they pay for it themselves? Afterall it's them that will get the perceived "benefit", not us.

Eighteen months. Two failed purchases.  A millstone around your necks!  And, I presume, you will benefit from the proceeds of the sale when it goes through.  What on earth are you faffing about for for the sake of a few quid.

Just my view.  

Tiglet2

fourmarks said:

sarlea said:

The cost of the plicy is £170 plus legal fees (£75 + VAT), so £260 in total.

I hate having to pay for something that isn't needed, especially on top of the legal fees we've already stacked up with the previous 2 buyers pulling out. The previous buyers solicitors never raised an issue with front access. They pulled out due to issues with rear vehicular access - but that's another story. It's definitely not an easy sale.

This house is becoming a real millstone around our necks. It's been empty since our father passed away in October  2021. If the buyers insist on the indemnity policy, why can't they pay for it themselves? Afterall it's them that will get the perceived "benefit", not us.

Eighteen months. Two failed purchases.  A millstone around your necks!  And, I presume, you will benefit from the proceeds of the sale when it goes through.  What on earth are you faffing about for for the sake of a few quid.

Just my view.  

Yes, my view too!

sarlea

OK, I thought this was a money saving forum! Yes, I'll benefit from the sale, as will my 3 siblings. It is our inheritance. It is not a big expensive house, just a modest ex-council house in need of renovation. Yes there are still council (or rather housing association) owned houses in the area, including next door.

Rear vehicular access is subject to a licence agreement from the housing association that owns the garages behind the house, which is also via unadopted land. I don't want to go into that, since like I said it has already caused long delays in selling the house.

Thanks for your comments. I guess we will just have to take it on the chin if we are ever going to be able to move on from this.

user1977

sarlea said:

OK, I thought this was a money saving forum!

Yes - how much money is the house costing you every day it isn't sold? What cheaper solutions do you think there are to your problem? (admittedly I think you could probably source the insurance for a bit less - but is your solicitor going to go along with that?)

sarlea

None of the delays are down to us. We were only told about the front access issue on Friday. Dad had a licence agreement for rear access, but it is not transferable. FYI

• Buyer 1 applied for a licence but was turned down after a lengthy consultation period by the HA because the buyer wanted to extend and use the house as an HMO.

• Buyer 2 decided not to apply for a licence because they wanted a permanent arrangement in place.

• Buyer 3 has applied for the licence, and who knows how long that will take.

Yes, it is costing us money to have an empty house. We even have to pay full council tax on it. 

Hedgepigs

Well there you go then. The indemnity is equivalent of approximately what? 6 weeks council tax maybe? Arguing over it could drag the sale out that long so what you save in an expensive bit of paper you lose in council tax. If this is the only big thing that is holding up the sale I'd pay up and save the stress and hassle.

Tiglet2

OP, did your dad purchase the property from the Council through the right to buy scheme?

If so, the Council would have transferred the property to him as a Transfer of Part (TP1).  If you have a copy of the TP1 (or you/your solicitor obtain it from Land Registry), check this for any clauses regarding the footpath.  It should say something like this:

12.2 Rights granted for the benefit of the Property

12.2.1 The full right for the Transferee and his successors in title in common with all others entitled thereto:

12.2.1.1 to the free passage and running of surface water drainage foul drainage water supply gas electricity telephone television and other services through and along the soil and surface water sewers and drains watercourses gutters gas and electricity and other pipes wires cables mains and apparatus serving the Property in or under or over the Council’s Land together with such ancillary rights of entry and otherwise as are necessary for the exercise of such rights as aforesaid

12.2.1.2 at all times and for all suitable normal purposes to pass and repass on foot only including wheelchair access over and along the land shown coloured brown on the attached plan Subject to the person or persons exercising these rights making good all damage occasioned thereby and paying a proper proportion of the cost of maintaining repairing and renewing the same in accordance with this Transfer 

The title may not say anything about rights regarding the footpath, but might instead refer you to the TP1 document.  If it states "copy filed", then Land Registry have a copy, but I would have expected the buyer's solicitor to have requested this during their enquiries.