Received PCN from TFL for stopping on red route "loading zone only" for 1.4 sec! (as per evidence)

JuliyaV

Hello everyone,

I hope you're all doing well. I have a question for those with more experience in dealing with TFL PCN (penalty charge notices). Recently, I received a PCN for an alleged stop at a red route or clearway. I was provided with two snapshots, timed respectively at 19:52:10 and 19:52:11, and there's only a 1.4-second difference between them. These snapshots are supposed proof that I committed a violation and should pay a penalty of 80 quid.

I'm questioning whether this penalty is justified at all, considering the short time difference, and the fact that I was within the area for just 1.4 seconds in both snapshots. Furthermore, in both pictures, I am inside the car, and the engine is running.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Any advice or insights would be greatly appreciated. Do you think I should challenge this decision, and based on your broad experience in the field, how can I successfully do so? The car was running when this picture was taken, and I stopped for only 1 second, just to join the line of cars.

Thank you all for your help

Best regards,

Juliya

Coupon-mad

Didn't even stop = de minimis.

Ask on pepipoo forum how to word the appeal as they are the experts on TFL penalties.

JuliyaV

Coupon-mad said:

Didn't even stop = de minimis.

Ask on pepipoo forum how to word the appeal as they are the experts on TFL penalties.

Thank you for that, I will do as suggested. Imho penalty is overly excessive, I'll do my best to challenge the PCN.

baser999

Was it perhaps the case that you’d drifted into the bus lane? That may have attracted the charge

JuliyaV

baser999 said:

Was it perhaps the case that you’d drifted into the bus lane? That may have attracted the charge

google.com/maps/@51.4078528,-0.1215386,3a,75y,245.78h,69.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC88MpBnsorJVJz9SI_QRPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

That is the exact location. There is no Bus Lane within the permimeter.

Thank You.

Fruitcake

By using the roof bars of the car in the foreground as a datum, it is clear that the vehicle in question moved between the time those two images were taken, therefore the vehicle did not stop. 

JuliyaV

Fruitcake said:

By using the roof bars of the car in the foreground as a datum, it is clear that the vehicle in question moved between the time those two images were taken, therefore the vehicle did not stop. 

An extremely valuable opinion, completely overlooked by me when analyzing the pieces of evidence. I believe I can use this argument to counter the PCN.

Coupon-mad

You have the right to see the video footage. Doesn't the back of the PCN explain how to view it?

ivanleo

TFL are not allowed to issue PCNs based on CCTV footage when a vehicle stops in a bay, this was held by a special panel of 3 adjudicators who heard the mater in May. TFL applied for a review of that decision and they even hired a KC to represent them, they lost.

All the details are available here: https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/red-route-panel-review/

The bottom line is it doesn't matter if you stopped for a second or an hour, the PCN is unlawful. If you post your PCN on https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/ I'll write you a draft representation.

Fruitcake

ivanleo said:

TFL are not allowed to issue PCNs based on CCTV footage when a vehicle stops in a bay, this was held by a special panel of 3 adjudicators who heard the mater in May. TFL applied for a review of that decision and they even hired a KC to represent them, they lost.

All the details are available here: https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/red-route-panel-review/

The bottom line is it doesn't matter if you stopped for a second or an hour, the PCN is unlawful. If you post your PCN on https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/ I'll write you a draft representation.

That's going to help for No Stopping cases from unregulated PPCs on airport Red Routes, thanks.

ivanleo

Fruitcake said:

That's going to help for No Stopping cases from unregulated PPCs on airport Red Routes, thanks.

That decision is very specific to statutory PCNs issue by public authorities so I'm not sure it will make any difference when it comes to PPC.