Window install issue please help!

FreeBear

howzat92 said:

BUFF said:

UPVC windows tend to have thicker frames than wooden.

Yes the frames are fine though it’s just this trim that has been added to cover the holes in the wall that’s the issue.  I’m assuming it would have been possible to plaster to the window and have a smaller trim but just need someone to confirm

I've had all my windows replaced, including a bay. Not once have I had big !!!!!! "trim" used like you have - Just had a check of my bay. A simple strip about 30mm high, and 12mm thick goes around the top of the frame, and a torus style molding (40mm wide, 19mm thick) covers the minimal gap at the sides. The curtain pole hides the top trim, and the curtains covers the moldings down the sides.

Yes, it is possible to plaster right up to the frame very neatly, and then you just need the thinnest of trims to cover the join. Judging by the amount of expanding (bodgers) foam poking out above your trim, I suspect there is quite a large void that needs filling with something a bit more solid. Perhaps a bit of 3x2 trimmed to suit.

ThisIsWeird

Hi Howzat.

Nice window colour outside - looks great against the stonework colour and the rest of the house. And what an indoors too - stunning mouldings  

To me the issue here is simply the width of the surrounding plastic trim (see top arrow). Ok, also the fact it's plastic, and is flat and plain and shiny. Everything else is great...

The closeness of the top trim to the cornice just looks hellish. The plainness of the surrounding plastic trim is doubly-so.

The thickness of the trim (other arrow) is an issue at the moment simply due to the ugliness of the actual trim, but if this were replaced with a timber moulding, 'square' on the outer edge, but with a shaped moulding to the inner, then it would/should be transformative, I think.

Could you try this, please: Place a straight object like a ruler flat across a side moulding. Now measure the distance between the flat surface and the wall (ie, to determine how far out - how 'thick' - the moulding is on the side that faces us). Now repeat this on the window frame side - how far in is the window frame?

I would hope that all of that surrounding flat trim can be jettisoned, any exposed wall gap made up using filler (and foam-fill first if needed), so that the wall surface level is continued right up to the window frame. Then a far more suitable timber moulding is added to cover the wall-window join, rebated/filled slightly if needed on the window side, so that all that's visible on the outer edge is the actual moulding thickness and no more. Then the moulding is painted to match your other timber mouldings - the picture rail for example. Try and keep the gap between the top moulding and cornice as large as possible, so that might mean a narrower moulding is required.

My bay window is different, but the step between the window frame and the surrounding walls are made up in timber. It still looked bland where the window reveal joined the wall, wall, so I added a purely decorative timber moulding to surround the whole bay (the moulding matches the door archi in our 30's house - 'ovolo', I think.) I have the same picture rail as you! This will butt-up to your new timber moulding - just as it does to the plastic trim - but will look 100% better when painted the same colour.

Just having your surrounding trim replaced by painted timber architrave should change it completely, I think. Not sure what style would suit the rest of your mouldings best - Ogee  - too fussy? Ovolo? What style of moulding surrounds your doors?

thearchitect

I tend to agree with Nobbie, above.

howzat92

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Howzat.

Nice window colour outside - looks great against the stonework colour and the rest of the house. And what an indoors too - stunning mouldings  

To me the issue here is simply the width of the surrounding plastic trim (see top arrow). Ok, also the fact it's plastic, and is flat and plain and shiny. Everything else is great...

The closeness of the top trim to the cornice just looks hellish. The plainness of the surrounding plastic trim is doubly-so.

The thickness of the trim (other arrow) is an issue at the moment simply due to the ugliness of the actual trim, but if this were replaced with a timber moulding, 'square' on the outer edge, but with a shaped moulding to the inner, then it would/should be transformative, I think.

Could you try this, please: Place a straight object like a ruler flat across a side moulding. Now measure the distance between the flat surface and the wall (ie, to determine how far out - how 'thick' - the moulding is on the side that faces us). Now repeat this on the window frame side - how far in is the window frame?

I would hope that all of that surrounding flat trim can be jettisoned, any exposed wall gap made up using filler (and foam-fill first if needed), so that the wall surface level is continued right up to the window frame. Then a far more suitable timber moulding is added to cover the wall-window join, rebated/filled slightly if needed on the window side, so that all that's visible on the outer edge is the actual moulding thickness and no more. Then the moulding is painted to match your other timber mouldings - the picture rail for example. Try and keep the gap between the top moulding and cornice as large as possible, so that might mean a narrower moulding is required.

My bay window is different, but the step between the window frame and the surrounding walls are made up in timber. It still looked bland where the window reveal joined the wall, wall, so I added a purely decorative timber moulding to surround the whole bay (the moulding matches the door archi in our 30's house - 'ovolo', I think.) I have the same picture rail as you! This will butt-up to your new timber moulding - just as it does to the plastic trim - but will look 100% better when painted the same colour.

Just having your surrounding trim replaced by painted timber architrave should change it completely, I think. Not sure what style would suit the rest of your mouldings best - Ogee  - too fussy? Ovolo? What style of moulding surrounds your doors?

Thanks for such detailed response it’s 100mm x 30mm the trim. Had another person round today to look and they are continuing to say that’s how it has to be. I suggested some timber and plaster and they said they don’t do that. 

ThisIsWeird

howzat92 said:

Thanks for such detailed response it’s 100mm x 30mm the trim. Had another person round today to look and they are continuing to say that’s how it has to be. I suggested some timber and plaster and they said they don’t do that. 

100x30? Wow - that's hefty.

Could you do what I asked, please - the distance from the trim's top surface to the wall, and ditto to the window frame?

To be 'fair' on most window fitters, they do not tend to get involved in making things look as pretty as they can... They don't 'fill', they don't skim, they don't look at the surrounding architraves to try and match them. They just fit the windows, squirt some foam into any large gaps, and then fit a nasty plastic trim piece over the remaining gaps.  

You either clarify how they'll finish the job in advance, or else accept that you'll need to get someone else in to finish the job off properly. That is not your 'fault'; when my bro was getting quotes for having nice wooden sash windows fitted a good few years back, I had to remind him to have it clarified what level of finishing there would be, and whether they'd plaster up to the new frames. As it turned out, some would, some wouldn't - "that was for the decorator".

So, in your case, I suspect the window fitters have done their bit, but you can undoubtedly have the appearance transformed with not a lot of work; have the trim removed, have it stuck where the sun don't shine, fill in the gaps underneath filled at 'wall level' right up to the window frame, and then fit a wooden architrave that matches the rest of your house, say the door's archi. 

And then come back and show off an inside finish that matches the outside - 'cos you have a lovely house. 

howzat92

Thanks. I don’t quite understand the measurements your asking for? 

ThisIsWeird

If you place a straight object, say a ruler, flat against the side trim, so's the ends stick out beyond it on either side, you should be able to measure how far the trim sticks out from the wall surface (ie, how 'thick' the trim is there) and repeat this on the window side. IE, measure from the wall surface to the ruler. Repeat on the window frame side.

Basically, I'm trying to compare the relative levels of the window frame and the wall surface - which one sticks out more.

Or, to put it another way, if you were to remove that flat plastic trim and continue the wall's level up to where it meets the window frame, which way would the resulting 'step' be? (Assuming, of course, they'd be unlikely to be the exact same!)

ChilliBob

We've just had new sliding doors, a new window, and new windows and a door on the back of our house and summerhouse respectively. The window companies don't do any form of decoration, and tbh, if they did it's not likely to be good. 

In my case I need a trim around one window, which will be 10mm, not ideal but not too bad. 

The rest is either a good enough fit against the new plaster to just need a small fill and a silicone, or in the doors case, dot and Dan the reveals, plaster them up to the door and no trims. 

The timber moulding idea sounds decent, you could probably get a plasterer to assist too if you don't like the wood idea.

My builders and window fitters had quite the chat when I insisted on no trims in my summerhouse. Mostly with the window fitters saying they had to have them, then the builders saying no, just measure properly! Etc! 

howzat92

Good news they agreed to return and fix it eventually - now 40mm trim all round  

FreeBear

Piggin' !!!!!! plaster repair. Who ever did that needs some basic training.

On the plus side, looks better for having narrower trim.