Poor Patio Work and making a claim

whateveryouwantittobe

Hi All.

After a bit of advice.

We had a patio laid (badly) late last year.

The company who did it admitted (in writing) that it was done incorrectly and offered to rectify this. The work was supposed to start on the 12th June, over the next few weeks some of his guys did 2-3 days work lifting the old patio and removing the base to start again, but this hasn't been completed. The owner has now been in hospital and I'm dealing with his partner who helps him run the business.

It's obvious that they will not be able to complete the remedial work and I've given them the option to refund me the monies paid to them and the cost of replacing the pocelain tiles. (I purchased them originally), a total of about £14,000

I've had two separate quotes of £24,000 to put the work right.

I believe I am within my right to claim for the work to be put right?

Do I need to send a letter before action? I have written to them previously saying that I would rather they just refund me the money and we'll call it quits, but nothing is forthcoming. So I think my only option now is court.

Any help and advice appreciated.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Is the trader an LTD (limited company) OP?

Generally with a service you have the right to a repeat performance and if they isn't carried out within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience you have a right to a price reduction (up to the full amount) plus the option to seek damages for any other losses you suffer as a result of the breach of contract (the patio not being laid with due care and skill).

£24 grand is one hell of a patio!  

whateveryouwantittobe

A Ltd Company. It's been going on since last year. We agreed in April that he would re-lay the patio, the work was scheduled to start at the beginning of June then put back a week to the 12th. Nothing then happened for another week, then a couple of lads turned up for about 2.5 days, took up the porcelain (they could litterally be lifted up as the original layer hadn't primed them properly so they hadn't stuck to the cement base) 

They've taken up all the slabs and 75% of the base then ran out of room in the skip and since then nothing has happened. The owner has been in hospital and we're fed up of waiting now. We should be able to enjoy the summer on our patio (110sqm) but it's now a building site again.

pinkshoes

whateveryouwantittobe said:

A Ltd Company. It's been going on since last year. We agreed in April that he would re-lay the patio, the work was scheduled to start at the beginning of June then put back a week to the 12th. Nothing then happened for another week, then a couple of lads turned up for about 2.5 days, took up the porcelain (they could litterally be lifted up as the original layer hadn't primed them properly so they hadn't stuck to the cement base) 

They've taken up all the slabs and 75% of the base then ran out of room in the skip and since then nothing has happened. The owner has been in hospital and we're fed up of waiting now. We should be able to enjoy the summer on our patio (110sqm) but it's now a building site again.

The £24k to put it right doesn't sound correct if they've done 75% of the lifting.

It would be the £14k you originally paid then the cost of some manual labour to remove the remaining 25% of slabs and base plus a skip cost, which I very much doubt will come to £10k if a couple of lads did 75% of it in 2.5 days. 

I'd push for the full refund and look at sending a letter before action to the company, then accept it's going to cost a bit more getting the last few slabs removed.

Are the slabs reusable if they're just lifting up?

whateveryouwantittobe

pinkshoes said:

whateveryouwantittobe said:

A Ltd Company. It's been going on since last year. We agreed in April that he would re-lay the patio, the work was scheduled to start at the beginning of June then put back a week to the 12th. Nothing then happened for another week, then a couple of lads turned up for about 2.5 days, took up the porcelain (they could litterally be lifted up as the original layer hadn't primed them properly so they hadn't stuck to the cement base) 

They've taken up all the slabs and 75% of the base then ran out of room in the skip and since then nothing has happened. The owner has been in hospital and we're fed up of waiting now. We should be able to enjoy the summer on our patio (110sqm) but it's now a building site again.

The £24k to put it right doesn't sound correct if they've done 75% of the lifting.

It would be the £14k you originally paid then the cost of some manual labour to remove the remaining 25% of slabs and base plus a skip cost, which I very much doubt will come to £10k if a couple of lads did 75% of it in 2.5 days. 

I'd push for the full refund and look at sending a letter before action to the company, then accept it's going to cost a bit more getting the last few slabs removed.

Are the slabs reusable if they're just lifting up?

I believe I'm entitled to have the job put right by a third party, not returned the state it was before the job. ( which is what I'm trying to acertain ) Even if I was only claiming to have it returned to the original state I shouldn't be out of pocket to have the work completed again and the slabs have increased in price by £1500 since I purchased them.

The two companies that have quoted won't use the original slabs so they need to be replaced at a cost of nearly £9k, the base (it's on 4 levels) needs to be scraped back then more type 1 added and wacked to get it back to a surface that's ready to lay again.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

It's a shame they are an LTD as there's the potential they could fold and never pay the money, the guy being in hospital doesn't bode well, although that might depend on exactly why. 

Have you had a look on Companies House at their LTD, the filing history should give some insight to their financial situation and also show whether they've been in business for 20 years or the directors have had 20 previous companies.

You are correct that you should be in the position you would have been in had the breach  (poor laying of the patio) not occurred but you are always obligated to mitigate (lessen) any losses or claims. 

If the slabs are all broken and damaged from being taken up then it would be fair to buy new but if it's simply a preference of another tradesperson without a reason that a court would agree is reasonable I think you'd find it hard to justify. 

The filing fee for £24,000 would be £1200 (5% of the amount claimed) and, from what's been said on here, claims over £10,000 go through a different track where higher legal costs can be claimed by both sides. 

Sorry I missed your question about the letter before action, yes this should always be sent, there are templates on Google but there are also solicitor firms who will send one for a small fee which might make more of an impact. 

I would possibly focus on getting the £14k back as a priority, perhaps see if a general tradesperson can clear the site back to scratch, then look at the state of the slabs to see what can be reused and possible get another couple of quotes.

The £14k might have been cheap and £24k is the going rate but equally the two who have quoted you recently could be padding out the job because they can see you are in a bind and think it's easy picking. 

Not an ideal situation to be in and a lot of money stake, if you need more advice do post back and I hope you manage to get at least some of the money back  

km1500

you are entitled to a refund - either full or partial - ie a refund of anywhere between £1 and £14,000 depending on lots of things

you are not entitled to claim the cost of someone else doing the work even if things have gone up in the interim

be aware if it is a limited company and if they have financial problems they could simply fold it and you may get nothing

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

km1500 said:

you are entitled to a refund - either full or partial - ie a refund of anywhere between £1 and £14,000 depending on lots of things

you are not entitled to claim the cost of someone else doing the work even if things have gone up in the interim

@km1500 Contract law works on the principle of putting you in the position you would have had been in had the contract been performed correctly/breach not occurred, OP is entitled to claim any (reasonable) additional costs as damages in addition to seeking a price reduction of the £14k under the CRA.   

born_again

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

The £14k might have been cheap and £24k is the going rate but equally the two who have quoted you recently could be padding out the job because they can see you are in a bind and think it's easy picking. 

Given Op stating

The two companies that have quoted won't use the original slabs so they need to be replaced at a cost of nearly £9k,

So the £14K was actually dearer than the 2 new quotes, when you factor in price increase of slabs.

tightauldgit

whateveryouwantittobe said:

Hi All.

After a bit of advice.

We had a patio laid (badly) late last year.

The company who did it admitted (in writing) that it was done incorrectly and offered to rectify this. The work was supposed to start on the 12th June, over the next few weeks some of his guys did 2-3 days work lifting the old patio and removing the base to start again, but this hasn't been completed. The owner has now been in hospital and I'm dealing with his partner who helps him run the business.

It's obvious that they will not be able to complete the remedial work and I've given them the option to refund me the monies paid to them and the cost of replacing the pocelain tiles. (I purchased them originally), a total of about £14,000

I've had two separate quotes of £24,000 to put the work right.

I believe I am within my right to claim for the work to be put right?

Do I need to send a letter before action? I have written to them previously saying that I would rather they just refund me the money and we'll call it quits, but nothing is forthcoming. So I think my only option now is court.

Any help and advice appreciated.

I think you can indeed try to recover the additional costs of having the work done properly but you need to be careful to follow the right process and give the original contractor the chance to rectify the problem first. 

So I think your first step would be to write to the contractor and explain that you need to remainder of the work completed in a reasonable time scale - and state a deadline. Maybe that work is to re-commence within 2 weeks or to be completed within a month? Or have they actually told you they can't complete it?

If they don't comply then you should write to them again and tell them that you plan to accept a quote from another supplier to complete the work and provide details of the quote to them and inform them that you will be looking to recover those costs from them in future.

Then you write to them again when the work is completed asking for them to send you the money or you will seek to recover it through court. 

I don't think a letter before action right now would be useful as it seems you haven't actually had the work done so haven't incurred the losses you would be seeking to recover. 

Alternatively you could pursue them in court now to just refund the money you've already spent but even then I think you would still need to send them a letter saying you want the work rectified and give them a deadline for it. 

Given the amounts involved here speaking to a solicitor may be wise but also the suggested tips here to check the company on Companies House is good advice.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

born_again said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

The £14k might have been cheap and £24k is the going rate but equally the two who have quoted you recently could be padding out the job because they can see you are in a bind and think it's easy picking. 

Given Op stating

The two companies that have quoted won't use the original slabs so they need to be replaced at a cost of nearly £9k,

So the £14K was actually dearer than the 2 new quotes, when you factor in price increase of slabs.

The OP said 

I've given them the option to refund me the monies paid to them and the cost of replacing the pocelain tiles. (I purchased them originally), a total of about £14,000

Reads to me as if the first patio guy was £14k including OP's purchase of the titles. 

Either £14k was cheap, £24k is expensive, £24k represents a genuine uplift in prices due to current circumstances or I'm misreading the OP  

tightauldgit said:

I think you can indeed try to recover the additional costs of having the work done properly but you need to be careful to follow the right process and give the original contractor the chance to rectify the problem first. 

  

Although reasonable time and significant inconvenience are subjective, if they were supposed to start the repeat performance 5 weeks ago and have done some of it but since disappeared you'd hope that would be viewed as not meeting reasonable and significant. 

A letter before action could detail both the option to request either a completed patio or full repayment as a price reduction within 28 days.  

I think we need clarity on the issue with the slabs before OP can determine what their total losses are.