Outdoor events - weather cancellation or curtailment

Undervalued

I'd be interested in any opinions about the legality of the following situation.....

I attend a number of outdoor events each year which are vulnerable to cancellation or curtailment due to weather. Although you can pay at the gate, if tickets are still available, some sell out so if you want to be certain of getting in you need to book in advance of reliable weather forecasts being available.

Until this year they would refund in the event of cancellation and occasionally, at their discretion, allow a discount on a future event in the program was badly curtailed.

Now however there is an option of paying an additional 10% on top of the ticket price for cancellation insurance, otherwise no refund. The position if there is a severely curtailed program is not clear.

Today's has been cancelled due to the weather forecast for this afternoon so those that paid the 10% extra will get their ticket price back. The only offer to those that didn't pay the extra is to view the inside exhibits on the site that could be seen on any other day for well under half the ticket price!

Just to be clear, I've not booked for today so I am not directly affected but I could easily have done and may well be in this dilemma in the future.

Tickets are c. £30 to £40

Any thoughts?

user1977

I would suspect it's an unfair contract term to provide no refunds if the event is (essentially) completely cancelled, even where that's clearly pointed out. Might be more of an argument where it's merely been curtailed or altered in some way.

tightauldgit

I suspect they would have to at least offer you entrance to a rescheduled event in order to fulfil their contract. I can't believe that someone can simply cancel an event and say 'no refunds' 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Undervalued said:

Now however there is an option of paying an additional 10% on top of the ticket price for cancellation insurance, otherwise no refund. 

Is this actually sold as insurance or labelled something else? 

As above likely to be unfair due to the CRA list of terms which may be unfair

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

7A term which has the object or effect of authorising the trader to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the consumer, or permitting the trader to retain the sums paid for services not yet supplied by the trader where it is the trader who dissolves the contract.

born_again

Probably going to be one of these that would need testing in court.

I think chargeback would be out given " view the inside exhibits on the site" so they have not cancelled fully.

eskbanker

born_again said:

Probably going to be one of these that would need testing in court.

I think chargeback would be out given " view the inside exhibits on the site" so they have not cancelled fully.

Surely it would still fall within the 'not as described' category?

Undervalued

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

Now however there is an option of paying an additional 10% on top of the ticket price for cancellation insurance, otherwise no refund. 

Is this actually sold as insurance or labelled something else? 

As above likely to be unfair due to the CRA list of terms which may be unfair

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

7A term which has the object or effect of authorising the trader to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the consumer, or permitting the trader to retain the sums paid for services not yet supplied by the trader where it is the trader who dissolves the contract.

They call it "ticket protection" or "additional ticket protection" depending on where you look. It is a flat fee of £3.50 which is roughly an additional 10% on top of the ticket but not exactly. Their terms and conditions page doesn't seem to have been updated for this new option.

As I mentioned they are allowing ticket holder access to the site to view inside exhibits but that would normally cost less than half the price. Also, many attending today would be members who get in free on non event days and get a discount on event days like today.

I don't what to "name and shame" as I am normally very supportive of the organisation and do see both sides. I suspect some reading this can guess.

born_again

eskbanker said:

born_again said:

Probably going to be one of these that would need testing in court.

I think chargeback would be out given " view the inside exhibits on the site" so they have not cancelled fully.

Surely it would still fall within the 'not as described' category?

Be very hard to prove.

As proof is needed.
So usually say, website add showing item, then pictures showing received item.

Add in T/C of these events may cover off changes due to weather etc.

eskbanker

born_again said:

eskbanker said:

born_again said:

Probably going to be one of these that would need testing in court.

I think chargeback would be out given " view the inside exhibits on the site" so they have not cancelled fully.

Surely it would still fall within the 'not as described' category?

Be very hard to prove.

As proof is needed.
So usually say, website add showing item, then pictures showing received item.

Add in T/C of these events may cover off changes due to weather etc.

It shouldn't be difficult to prove purchase of a ticket for an event, and also some sort of email or online notification that the event is cancelled/downgraded?  Granted, if there's a clause in the Ts & Cs that says no refunds after cancellations then the organisers' actions wouldn't constitute a breach of contract, so that would rule out chargeback, even though the terms could be challenged as unfair....

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Undervalued said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

Now however there is an option of paying an additional 10% on top of the ticket price for cancellation insurance, otherwise no refund. 

Is this actually sold as insurance or labelled something else? 

As above likely to be unfair due to the CRA list of terms which may be unfair

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

7A term which has the object or effect of authorising the trader to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the consumer, or permitting the trader to retain the sums paid for services not yet supplied by the trader where it is the trader who dissolves the contract.

They call it "ticket protection" or "additional ticket protection" depending on where you look. It is a flat fee of £3.50 which is roughly an additional 10% on top of the ticket but not exactly. Their terms and conditions page doesn't seem to have been updated for this new option.

As I mentioned they are allowing ticket holder access to the site to view inside exhibits but that would normally cost less than half the price. Also, many attending today would be members who get in free on non event days and get a discount on event days like today.

I don't what to "name and shame" as I am normally very supportive of the organisation and do see both sides. I suspect some reading this can guess.

I suspected such, insurance is regulated, most of these things are basically pretend insurance without the regulation, not sure where the line is drawn. 

Appreciate it’s a hypothetical question but, if you were to issue a letter before action citing the CRA along with CMA guidance I think they’d be foolish not to refund. 

Although amounts mentioned are small I’m sure multiple people can club together for small claims.

It may be difficult for event organisers but such is life, behaving in this kind of manner only shows contempt for their customers, they need to find another way to balance the costs of cancelled events. 

Undervalued

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

Now however there is an option of paying an additional 10% on top of the ticket price for cancellation insurance, otherwise no refund. 

Is this actually sold as insurance or labelled something else? 

As above likely to be unfair due to the CRA list of terms which may be unfair

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/schedule/2/enacted

7A term which has the object or effect of authorising the trader to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the consumer, or permitting the trader to retain the sums paid for services not yet supplied by the trader where it is the trader who dissolves the contract.

They call it "ticket protection" or "additional ticket protection" depending on where you look. It is a flat fee of £3.50 which is roughly an additional 10% on top of the ticket but not exactly. Their terms and conditions page doesn't seem to have been updated for this new option.

As I mentioned they are allowing ticket holder access to the site to view inside exhibits but that would normally cost less than half the price. Also, many attending today would be members who get in free on non event days and get a discount on event days like today.

I don't what to "name and shame" as I am normally very supportive of the organisation and do see both sides. I suspect some reading this can guess.

I suspected such, insurance is regulated, most of these things are basically pretend insurance without the regulation, not sure where the line is drawn. 

Appreciate it’s a hypothetical question but, if you were to issue a letter before action citing the CRA along with CMA guidance I think they’d be foolish not to refund. 

Although amounts mentioned are small I’m sure multiple people can club together for small claims.

It may be difficult for event organisers but such is life, behaving in this kind of manner only shows contempt for their customers, they need to find another way to balance the costs of cancelled events. 

Thanks

In many cases I'm sure that is true but I don't think it is the case here. This is a "not for profit" organisation that I am sure has the best of intentions but flounders a little from time to time!

Before they changed to the current optional "insurance" arrangement I think they used to give a free transfer to a future event in the event of cancellation. Whether that was covered by insurance behind the scenes or if they stood their own risk I don't know.

I have no idea what the cost of proper cancellation insurance would be or if there would be difficulties in agreeing how the decision is made in borderline situations. There are safety and legal considerations.