Query about Right of Way

gazfocus

I've posted before about a house I'm buying that has a hideous council owned gate at the side of the house. I asked our solicitor in particular to look into the details of the patch of land at the side of the house but she's not been super helpful, other than to say the land is unregistered.

Anyway, I've now received the pre-contract documentation from our solicitor which includes the title plan and title register for the house I'm buying. I've also downloaded the title plan and register for the neighbour on the other side of the piece of land, and their neighbour also.

On the register for the house I'm buying, there is no mention of ROW on this patch of land in between my house and the neighours house, and there's no mention of it on the neighbours title either, although access to both of our gardens is from this patch of land. However, on the neighbours title, it states: "The part of the passageway at the rear included in this title is subject to rights of way."

Then, on the neighbours neighbours title, it states: "Excepting and reserving unto the Vendor in fee simple for the benefit of the whole and every part of his adjoining property a right of way over and across the passage way at the rear of the property hereby conveyed."

I've done a brief diagram below to illustrate the layout of the plot. There is a passageway that 'should' wrap around the block of 4 terraced houses (mine's a semi so doesn't have the same), coloured in brown. 

What I'm trying to establish is, while there is a ROW for the passage way at the rear, if there's no ROW for the passageway at the side of our house, do we need to allow access via that land, to the passageway at the rear?

born_again

Would be better to get this added to the end of the other thread so there is continuity of information. A forum rep can request that for you.

Seems unlike old software we can not use your profile to find old threads.

Section62

gazfocus said:

I asked our solicitor in particular to look into the details of the patch of land at the side of the house but she's not been super helpful, other than to say the land is unregistered.

...

What I'm trying to establish is, while there is a ROW for the passage way at the rear, if there's no ROW for the passageway at the side of our house, do we need to allow access via that land, to the passageway at the rear?

If the land at the side is unregistered then it won't be forming part of the property you are purchasing - therefore it is not up to you to allow or deny access over that land to other people.  (I.e. it doesn't belong to you, therefore you can't control use of it)

As pointed out on your previous thread, the fact the council got involved in putting the gate up would strongly suggest ownership of the land is unknown (and not part of your property or the neighbour's) so therefore the council has had to step in using its powers to gate off the land to prevent ASB.

What this means is it is likely the developer of the properties sold the neighbour's house including the strip of land at the rear end of the garden as a RoW (i.e. the part parallel to the road) but retained ownership of the strip from the road to the RoW at the rear (i.e. the parts perpendicular to the road).

That there is no mention of a RoW over the land between your properties in either yours or the neighbour's deeds would tend to confirm that neither of you own the land, but also raises the possibility you have no legal access to your rear garden via this strip of land.

The impression I had before was there was a can of worms waiting to be opened here and if you went ahead and purchased the property the best approach would be to do nothing which risked opening that can.  That is what I'd continue to believe and suggest... i.e. either walk away, or make sure you don't do anything that may affect what is possibly a delicately balanced existing situation, and hope that nobody challenges your ability to access the rear garden over this land.

gazfocus

Section62 said:

gazfocus said:

I asked our solicitor in particular to look into the details of the patch of land at the side of the house but she's not been super helpful, other than to say the land is unregistered.

...

What I'm trying to establish is, while there is a ROW for the passage way at the rear, if there's no ROW for the passageway at the side of our house, do we need to allow access via that land, to the passageway at the rear?

If the land at the side is unregistered then it won't be forming part of the property you are purchasing - therefore it is not up to you to allow or deny access over that land to other people.  (I.e. it doesn't belong to you, therefore you can't control use of it)

As pointed out on your previous thread, the fact the council got involved in putting the gate up would strongly suggest ownership of the land is unknown (and not part of your property or the neighbour's) so therefore the council has had to step in using its powers to gate off the land to prevent ASB.

What this means is it is likely the developer of the properties sold the neighbour's house including the strip of land at the rear end of the garden as a RoW (i.e. the part parallel to the road) but retained ownership of the strip from the road to the RoW at the rear (i.e. the parts perpendicular to the road).

That there is no mention of a RoW over the land between your properties in either yours or the neighbour's deeds would tend to confirm that neither of you own the land, but also raises the possibility you have no legal access to your rear garden via this strip of land.

The impression I had before was there was a can of worms waiting to be opened here and if you went ahead and purchased the property the best approach would be to do nothing which risked opening that can.  That is what I'd continue to believe and suggest... i.e. either walk away, or make sure you don't do anything that may affect what is possibly a delicately balanced existing situation, and hope that nobody challenges your ability to access the rear garden over this land.

Thanks for that. Walking away from the property isn't an option as we do love the house, regardless. 

With regards to opening a can of worms, I 100% see what you mean, but similarly, I can't see if being sensible to buy a house without knowing all I can find out about this piece of land. I did approach the council and they said that once I own the house, I can apply to have the gate removed if I so wished, but I've asked for details surrounding why the gate was put there in the first place, and any comments from neighbours/who has access, etc.

It strikes me as odd, that the deeds don't allow for ROW over this land, given the access to the garden was built by the developer (i.e. it's a brick wall continuing from the house to the outbuilding, with a wooden gate). 

At the very least, my intention here is to make the land look more presentable, with some hardcore, or similar as it's just an unsightly mess at the moment.

Edited to add, I have asked our solicitor to query the garden access with the vendor and also the circumstances around the alley gate being installed as it would have been installed during the vendors ownership of the house.

Section62

gazfocus said:

With regards to opening a can of worms, I 100% see what you mean, but similarly, I can't see if being sensible to buy a house without knowing all I can find out about this piece of land. I did approach the council and they said that once I own the house, I can apply to have the gate removed if I so wished, but I've asked for details surrounding why the gate was put there in the first place, and any comments from neighbours/who has access, etc.

Completely agree with knowing all you can before buying - my point was more about buying and then opening the can of worms.  I.e. if this strip of land doesn't belong to the property and you don't have a RoW over it, then your best hope is that nobody will object to you using it as an access to your own rear garden.  IIRC there were signs the neighbour may have ambitions to merge it into their own property, in which case (without RoW) you would struggle to 'win' in a legal sense in terms of retaining what access there is now.

gazfocus said:

It strikes me as odd, that the deeds don't allow for ROW over this land, given the access to the garden was built by the developer (i.e. it's a brick wall continuing from the house to the outbuilding, with a wooden gate). 

Yes, you'd normally expect the developer (if they retained the land) to grant RoW over the parts they retained.  Surprising this hasn't been flagged by a solicitor(s) in the past as the RoW along the back doesn't have much use if you can't get to it from the road.  I wonder if there was possibly some other access from the opposite direction (the street at the back)?