Reporting someone to the police for misappropriation of funds of an estate?

Pennylane

Police won’t involve themselves in anything like this. A family member stole a lot of money and  items left to me in a Will from my parents  house and the Police did nothing. I insisted they at least tried so they went round to his house, he slammed the door in their face and the Police Officer came back to me and said “there is nothing more I can do.”  We knew without doubt it was him as he was the only other person with a key and there was no break in.  

uknick

Pennylane said:

Police won’t involve themselves in anything like this. A family member stole a lot of money and  items left to me in a Will from my parents  house and the Police did nothing. I insisted they at least tried so they went round to his house, he slammed the door in their face and the Police Officer came back to me and said “there is nothing more I can do.”  We knew without doubt it was him as he was the only other person with a key and there was no break in.  

Very sorry to hear that.  Sounds very much like the police treated it as they would a burglary, far too much trouble to investigate.  I apologise for being nosey, and tell me to n**f off if you want, but were the items stolen before your parent died?  If after one wonders how they got access to the money.

Ibits4321

Keep_pedalling said:

Ibits4321 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

They might not get a criminal record against them, but they might end up having to pay both sides costs if it ends up in court. How far you go with this is going to depend on the size of the estate and the likelihood of being able to recover the loss. If they own their own home they risk loosing it, but if the live in rented accommodation, have gambled it all away and have no savings you will be on a hiding to nothing.

The siblings made two major errors. The first was trusting the administrator to handle the estate alone and not already having taken action at least a year ago. 

You're not wrong!

Ibits4321

Marcon said:

Ibits4321 said:

Does anyone have experience of this? Quick overview: person died intestate and one of his children became executor and had the letter of administration granted two years ago. They have not distributed the estate to their siblings and when the siblings have enquired when they will receive their money the executor has gone no-contact with their siblings and blocked them from every platform possible. Before going no- contact they were very visibly spending money in a way that they didn't used to before.

This is theft/fraud, surely? A police officer friend has said the police wouldn't be interested. Is this true? Surely not? I googled and saw some people have gone to prison for abusing their position as executor so it must be possible to report to police. My question is if it's not a 101 job who do you report it to?

Your friend is a policeman, so he's rather likely to be better placed to answer your question than anyone on this board (unless they too happen to be in the force!). 

You need to look carefully at the facts where someone was jailed for abusing their position as executor, because it doesn't mean there has been direct police involvement eg https://www.boltburdon.co.uk/blogs/choose-executors-carefully-court-jails-executor-abused-position-power/#:~:text=This%20week%20an%20executor%20was,executor%20of%20Anita%20Border%27s%20estate.

Ibits4321 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

It's hugely frustrating and unfair. The cheapest way to proceed is likely to be by means of a request for Inventory and Account - plenty of good explanations if you google eg https://www.brabners.com/thought-leadership/inventory-account-obtaining-information-executors

Thank you for both of these. I'd love to know how the person in the article ended up getting prosecuted for it. 

Ibits4321

uknick said:

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

I agree with every part of your post

Ibits4321

user1977 said:

uknick said:

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

So you need to persuade the police/CPS that they ought to spend thousands on it instead.

And even they prosecute, that doesn't mean they're going to do anything about retrieving the money. Plus they may take many months/years to even decide what to do.

Let's just roll over and let inheritance fraud be a normal part of life in today's Britain, then. In your world it's right that there's nothing to stop anybody deciding they prefer money to having family, fgs, seeing as that's the only consequence 🙄

Ibits4321

uknick said:

user1977 said:

uknick said:

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

So you need to persuade the police/CPS that they ought to spend thousands on it instead.

And even they prosecute, that doesn't mean they're going to do anything about retrieving the money. Plus they may take many months/years to even decide what to do.

May I ask, have you or those of similar mindset, been in the position of having to take legal action to recover their inheritance?  If so, I can only respect your view point as you've been through it and at the end decided it was only fair that you pick up the legal cost.

I, and my solicitor, have a different view in that the police are ignoring their responsibilities.  With regard to time scales the Loveday case took 4 years to reach a conclusion in total for the civil and then criminal case to get a successful conviction.  

Outrageous 

user1977

Ibits4321 said:

user1977 said:

uknick said:

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

So you need to persuade the police/CPS that they ought to spend thousands on it instead.

And even they prosecute, that doesn't mean they're going to do anything about retrieving the money. Plus they may take many months/years to even decide what to do.

Let's just roll over and let inheritance fraud be a normal part of life in today's Britain, then. In your world it's right that there's nothing to stop anybody deciding they prefer money to having family, fgs, seeing as that's the only consequence 🙄

My world is reality. You can report it to the police if you like, but nothing is likely to come of it. And even if they do something, it doesn't mean they'll get your money back. Whereas you can take action yourself to recover the funds.

Marcon

Ibits4321 said:

Marcon said:

Ibits4321 said:

Does anyone have experience of this? Quick overview: person died intestate and one of his children became executor and had the letter of administration granted two years ago. They have not distributed the estate to their siblings and when the siblings have enquired when they will receive their money the executor has gone no-contact with their siblings and blocked them from every platform possible. Before going no- contact they were very visibly spending money in a way that they didn't used to before.

This is theft/fraud, surely? A police officer friend has said the police wouldn't be interested. Is this true? Surely not? I googled and saw some people have gone to prison for abusing their position as executor so it must be possible to report to police. My question is if it's not a 101 job who do you report it to?

Your friend is a policeman, so he's rather likely to be better placed to answer your question than anyone on this board (unless they too happen to be in the force!). 

You need to look carefully at the facts where someone was jailed for abusing their position as executor, because it doesn't mean there has been direct police involvement eg https://www.boltburdon.co.uk/blogs/choose-executors-carefully-court-jails-executor-abused-position-power/#:~:text=This%20week%20an%20executor%20was,executor%20of%20Anita%20Border%27s%20estate.

Ibits4321 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

It's hugely frustrating and unfair. The cheapest way to proceed is likely to be by means of a request for Inventory and Account - plenty of good explanations if you google eg https://www.brabners.com/thought-leadership/inventory-account-obtaining-information-executors

Thank you for both of these. I'd love to know how the person in the article ended up getting prosecuted for it. 

The disappointed beneficiary took him to court. See https://mitchellsol.com.au/good-neighbours-arent-always-good-friends-gibbs-v-loveday-kimyani-v-sandhu-executors-who-behaved-badly-and-have-paid-the-price/ 

Spendless

Marcon said:

Ibits4321 said:

Marcon said:

Ibits4321 said:

Does anyone have experience of this? Quick overview: person died intestate and one of his children became executor and had the letter of administration granted two years ago. They have not distributed the estate to their siblings and when the siblings have enquired when they will receive their money the executor has gone no-contact with their siblings and blocked them from every platform possible. Before going no- contact they were very visibly spending money in a way that they didn't used to before.

This is theft/fraud, surely? A police officer friend has said the police wouldn't be interested. Is this true? Surely not? I googled and saw some people have gone to prison for abusing their position as executor so it must be possible to report to police. My question is if it's not a 101 job who do you report it to?

Your friend is a policeman, so he's rather likely to be better placed to answer your question than anyone on this board (unless they too happen to be in the force!). 

You need to look carefully at the facts where someone was jailed for abusing their position as executor, because it doesn't mean there has been direct police involvement eg https://www.boltburdon.co.uk/blogs/choose-executors-carefully-court-jails-executor-abused-position-power/#:~:text=This%20week%20an%20executor%20was,executor%20of%20Anita%20Border%27s%20estate.

Ibits4321 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

It's hugely frustrating and unfair. The cheapest way to proceed is likely to be by means of a request for Inventory and Account - plenty of good explanations if you google eg https://www.brabners.com/thought-leadership/inventory-account-obtaining-information-executors

Thank you for both of these. I'd love to know how the person in the article ended up getting prosecuted for it. 

The disappointed beneficiary took him to court. See https://mitchellsol.com.au/good-neighbours-arent-always-good-friends-gibbs-v-loveday-kimyani-v-sandhu-executors-who-behaved-badly-and-have-paid-the-price/ 

He deservedly  went to prison but this part from it stood out to me The court’s action towards David Loveday for his abuse of trust that Anita Border placed in him goes some way in providing comfort to the testator, knowing that any misuse of your funds by dishonest Executors won’t go unpunished. The real victim in this case, though is Parminder Gibbs who has not only lost her share of the estate but has also spent considerable personal savings on court fees to bring Loveday to justice. Money spent which will never be recovered.   It'll cost financially to take the court to case and the likelihood is you'll never see your inheritance either. 

 I said this on another thread but my Mum is the sole executor of my Nan's will and I was staggered to discover how little accountability she did have to carry out her duties correctly if she were to choose not to (not that it would ever cross her mind to do this) . Mum, myself and an estranged relative are the beneficiaries of Nan's will. Estranged relative knew the contents of Nan's will when she made it but later fell out with her too. Nan's estate was low enough not to need probate with the bank she was at, so the will didn't go online. Estranged relative could have thought that that Nan had disinherited her, that there was no money left due to Nan being in a care home for the last 8 years of her life or that Mum was withholding the money. The only way relative could find out would be to pay a solicitor to get Mum to show the will and of course relative wouldn't go to that expenditure because what if the answer was she wasn't in it or there wasn't any money. The real 'hold up' (Nan died in Feb) is that until a fortnight ago Mum was still waiting to see if there were 2 bills to be paid from Nan's estate (she is still awaiting the outcome of one, but says she will pay it herself if needed) before paying out.