Reporting someone to the police for misappropriation of funds of an estate?

Ibits4321

Does anyone have experience of this? Quick overview: person died intestate and one of his children became executor and had the letter of administration granted two years ago. They have not distributed the estate to their siblings and when the siblings have enquired when they will receive their money the executor has gone no-contact with their siblings and blocked them from every platform possible. Before going no- contact they were very visibly spending money in a way that they didn't used to before.

This is theft/fraud, surely? A police officer friend has said the police wouldn't be interested. Is this true? Surely not? I googled and saw some people have gone to prison for abusing their position as executor so it must be possible to report to police. My question is if it's not a 101 job who do you report it to?

Mr.Generous

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Keep_pedalling

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Ibits4321

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

Spendless

Ibits4321 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

That's a question to ask to the solicitor. Sadly this scenario has come up all too frequently and I've yet to see a story where it comes to a happy conclusion for those who didn't receive what they should have done. 

Keep_pedalling

Ibits4321 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

They might not get a criminal record against them, but they might end up having to pay both sides costs if it ends up in court. How far you go with this is going to depend on the size of the estate and the likelihood of being able to recover the loss. If they own their own home they risk loosing it, but if the live in rented accommodation, have gambled it all away and have no savings you will be on a hiding to nothing.

The siblings made two major errors. The first was trusting the administrator to handle the estate alone and not already having taken action at least a year ago. 

Marcon

Ibits4321 said:

Does anyone have experience of this? Quick overview: person died intestate and one of his children became executor and had the letter of administration granted two years ago. They have not distributed the estate to their siblings and when the siblings have enquired when they will receive their money the executor has gone no-contact with their siblings and blocked them from every platform possible. Before going no- contact they were very visibly spending money in a way that they didn't used to before.

This is theft/fraud, surely? A police officer friend has said the police wouldn't be interested. Is this true? Surely not? I googled and saw some people have gone to prison for abusing their position as executor so it must be possible to report to police. My question is if it's not a 101 job who do you report it to?

Your friend is a policeman, so he's rather likely to be better placed to answer your question than anyone on this board (unless they too happen to be in the force!). 

You need to look carefully at the facts where someone was jailed for abusing their position as executor, because it doesn't mean there has been direct police involvement eg https://www.boltburdon.co.uk/blogs/choose-executors-carefully-court-jails-executor-abused-position-power/#:~:text=This%20week%20an%20executor%20was,executor%20of%20Anita%20Border%27s%20estate.

Ibits4321 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The police will tell you that this is a civil matter, and at this stage it is. The other siblings need to speak to a solicitor pronto. Getting threatened with legal action may be enough to get the administrator to finally cough, but if not they need to follow through with that action.

Thanks. They have, but I'm just wondering what happens if the person simply refuses to engage. Seems unfair that the others have to spend thousands getting what's theirs in law simply because presumably this person knows they won't get a criminal record so it's in their interest to play chicken and dare their siblings to keep spending money until it goes to court and a judge inevitably makes them cough up the money. If there's any left by that point! 

It's hugely frustrating and unfair. The cheapest way to proceed is likely to be by means of a request for Inventory and Account - plenty of good explanations if you google eg https://www.brabners.com/thought-leadership/inventory-account-obtaining-information-executors

uknick

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

user1977

uknick said:

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

So you need to persuade the police/CPS that they ought to spend thousands on it instead.

And even they prosecute, that doesn't mean they're going to do anything about retrieving the money. Plus they may take many months/years to even decide what to do.

uknick

user1977 said:

uknick said:

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

So you need to persuade the police/CPS that they ought to spend thousands on it instead.

And even they prosecute, that doesn't mean they're going to do anything about retrieving the money. Plus they may take many months/years to even decide what to do.

May I ask, have you or those of similar mindset, been in the position of having to take legal action to recover their inheritance?  If so, I can only respect your view point as you've been through it and at the end decided it was only fair that you pick up the legal cost.

I, and my solicitor, have a different view in that the police are ignoring their responsibilities.  With regard to time scales the Loveday case took 4 years to reach a conclusion in total for the civil and then criminal case to get a successful conviction.  

Gavin83

user1977 said:

uknick said:

user1977 said:

Ibits4321 said:

Mr.Generous said:

Not that exact situation but when my Dad had a stroke he was robbed by family member. Police were not interested.

Do we actually have laws any more? 😭

Yes, we have laws. And the beneficiaries can use those laws to recover the funds themselves, it's not the police's job to be a publicly-funded debt recovery service.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about contentious probate here as that may well involve a "he said, she said" scenario which should not be investigated by the police initially.  But they should get involved if evidence can be produced which indicates some sort of conspiracy to defraud has taken place. 

With regard to your view on estate maladministration/misappropriation, do you think theft or fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted by the police and CPS?

Surely estate maladministration/misappropriation is no different?  Whether it is investigated is another matter due to the limited police resources we have in this country.  But I'm sure if a politician had their share of an estate misappropriated the police would soon get involved.

Your attitude to tell people to spend thousands of pounds to get what is rightfully yours, is only feeding the problem as executors call the bluff that the injured parties can't afford to challenge them.

So you need to persuade the police/CPS that they ought to spend thousands on it instead.

And even they prosecute, that doesn't mean they're going to do anything about retrieving the money. Plus they may take many months/years to even decide what to do.

I’m not denying this is the way it works but it is wrong. They are breaking the law and therefore should be prosecuted and given a criminal record plus the appropriate punishment. That is the job of the police/CPS. The recovery of the money is a separate issue.