Getting out of being a guarantor

elsien

At her age she’s only going to be entitled to the shared house element of universal credit. If she’s in a flat on her own, it’s unlikely that will cover the rent.

robatwork

Have you got the actual (guarantor) agreement you signed? If you can, post it here with any personal details blanked out.

saajan_12

How long have you been paying the rent? And do you pay daughter to pay on, or pay the LL/agent directly? 

Please quote the guarantee 'slip' you signed and the tenancy agreement for how long the guarantee lasts. Assuming this is for the duration of the tenancy as long as its on the same terms, then the only way to force it to end is to end the periodic tenancy.
> Either daughter or LL can initiate the termination. If daughter isn't playing ball, then you're left with the LL. 
> The LL won't want to end a constant income stream, so you need to convince them that you can't / won't pay and they'll have to take you to court.. if its more hassle then they'll (probably) prefer to evict (and still recover the unpaid months, but not keep it going). 

Exodi

I acted as a guarantor for my parents on a short term rental property while they were selling their house and moving to the UK (long story - despite having a guaranteed pension income and proceeds for a house sale on the horizon, most LA's were unwilling to consider them for a rental without a guarantor, as they had not lived in the UK for the past 6 months)...

Luckily they didn't stitch me up with the rent!

So I signed a guarantor form and was sent a 'Deed of Guarantee (Unlimited)'. It's a couple of pages but the main parts are:

1 In consideration of your having agreed to grant a Tenancy to

REDACTED

In respect of

REDACTED

Under the terms of a Tenancy dated REDACTED at a rental of REDACTED per calendar month .

I HEREBY GUARANTEE to pay your losses for any Breach of the Tenancy Agreement and any failure on the part of the tenant to meet the conditions of that agreement.

2 If the Tenant does not meet his/her responsibilities under this agreement the Guarantor will pay the losses due to the landlord (or his successors and assigns) as soon as the Landlord sends to the Guarantor a demand.

3 The Guarantor will also pay the Landlord’s reasonable legal costs in taking anyone who is involved in this agreement to court to get a court order for repossessing the property, or compensation for losses the landlord has suffered as a result of the tenant not meeting his responsibilities under this agreement. The responsibility of the Guarantor is UNLIMITED.

4 The Guarantee will stay in force for as long as any of the Tenant(s) continue to live in the property and until the Tenancy has ended. “Ended” here means either all the keys to the property are returned and the property is empty (you have not allowed anyone else to stay on at the property) or the property is repossessed by County Court Bailiffs. It shall not be revoked by the death or Bankruptcy of the Landlord or of any person who is a party to this agreement. It shall continue in full force even after variations to the terms of the Tenancy, including any increase in rent. The Guarantee will extend to any extension of the Tenancy. If the Landlord gives you any extra time to pay any money that is due, it will not affect the liability of the Guarantor in any way.

5 The Guarantor may give notice to end this Guarantee at the end of any written Tenancy. The Guarantor then agrees to remain liable under the full terms of this Guarantee until the Landlord has obtained Possession through the Courts and the tenants have been evicted by Bailiffs, as long as the Landlord has acted as quickly as is reasonably possible in obtaining such court order for possession.

I'm not saying that the guarantor agreement is necessarily exactly the same, but it's probably reasonable to assume they function in similar ways.

I think it is interesting that the liability is unlimited and suggests that it can include variations to the tenancy, including rent increases.

Anyway, it sounds like (in this agreement) the only way to unilaterally end a periodic rolling tenancy would be to give notice to the landlord, who would seek possession through the courts (assuming the tenant is unwilling to move out). The guarantor would remain liable for the costs of such action.

Obviously the best (and cheapest way) would be to reach an agreement with the daughter... though someone who is happy allowing their parents to pay their rent indefinitely doesn't sound very reasonable unfortunately.

_Penny_Dreadful

The guarantee needs to be executed as deed. This means your signature needs to be witnessed and you need to have sight of the tenancy agreement before selling. Many guarantees are not executed correctly as deeds. You really need to get hold of any paperwork you have about the guarantee to check. 

If no new tenancy agreement has been signed, and the deed was executed correctly, then you will remain on the hook for the rent. Should that be the case then in your shoes I’d contact the landlord and request the landlord start eviction proceedings. The landlord may or may not comply. If not the next step is to cease paying rent to encourage the landlord to start the eviction. As guarantor you will remain liable for the rent and any associated court costs but you can square that up once your daughter has been evicted. It won’t be nice but sometimes needs must. 

silvercar

The daughter needs to live somewhere, if you aren't able to pay the rent and she isn't paying it, then the quickest way to end the tenancy is to offer for her to live with you. If you can't house her, then she is going to stay put as she has nowhere else to go.

saajan_12

Exodi said:

I acted as a guarantor for my parents on a short term rental property while they were selling their house and moving to the UK (long story - despite having a guaranteed pension income and proceeds for a house sale on the horizon, most LA's were unwilling to consider them for a rental without a guarantor, as they had not lived in the UK for the past 6 months)...

Luckily they didn't stitch me up with the rent!

So I signed a guarantor form and was sent a 'Deed of Guarantee (Unlimited)'. It's a couple of pages but the main parts are:

1 In consideration of your having agreed to grant a Tenancy to

REDACTED

In respect of

REDACTED

Under the terms of a Tenancy dated REDACTED at a rental of REDACTED per calendar month .

I HEREBY GUARANTEE to pay your losses for any Breach of the Tenancy Agreement and any failure on the part of the tenant to meet the conditions of that agreement.

2 If the Tenant does not meet his/her responsibilities under this agreement the Guarantor will pay the losses due to the landlord (or his successors and assigns) as soon as the Landlord sends to the Guarantor a demand.

3 The Guarantor will also pay the Landlord’s reasonable legal costs in taking anyone who is involved in this agreement to court to get a court order for repossessing the property, or compensation for losses the landlord has suffered as a result of the tenant not meeting his responsibilities under this agreement. The responsibility of the Guarantor is UNLIMITED.

4 The Guarantee will stay in force for as long as any of the Tenant(s) continue to live in the property and until the Tenancy has ended. “Ended” here means either all the keys to the property are returned and the property is empty (you have not allowed anyone else to stay on at the property) or the property is repossessed by County Court Bailiffs. It shall not be revoked by the death or Bankruptcy of the Landlord or of any person who is a party to this agreement. It shall continue in full force even after variations to the terms of the Tenancy, including any increase in rent. The Guarantee will extend to any extension of the Tenancy. If the Landlord gives you any extra time to pay any money that is due, it will not affect the liability of the Guarantor in any way.

5 The Guarantor may give notice to end this Guarantee at the end of any written Tenancy. The Guarantor then agrees to remain liable under the full terms of this Guarantee until the Landlord has obtained Possession through the Courts and the tenants have been evicted by Bailiffs, as long as the Landlord has acted as quickly as is reasonably possible in obtaining such court order for possession.

I'm not saying that the guarantor agreement is necessarily exactly the same, but it's probably reasonable to assume they function in similar ways.

I think it is interesting that the liability is unlimited and suggests that it can include variations to the tenancy, including rent increases.

Anyway, it sounds like (in this agreement) the only way to unilaterally end a periodic rolling tenancy would be to give notice to the landlord, who would seek possession through the courts (assuming the tenant is unwilling to move out). The guarantor would remain liable for the costs of such action.

Obviously the best (and cheapest way) would be to reach an agreement with the daughter... though someone who is happy allowing their parents to pay their rent indefinitely doesn't sound very reasonable unfortunately.

Tbh I don't think it is reasonable to assume other guarantees function in similar ways. There are quite stringent requirements for how a guarantee must be executed (due to the scale of the burden taken on by the guarantor). Many guarantee documents fail these standards and don't function as well as you'd think. 

As for your guarantee, I'm not sure all of it would be enforceable - particularly the term on staying in force through variations I think would be considered an unfair term, as the LL could unilatterally increase the rent 100x, not notify the guarantor and expect them to pay. 

martindow

If the OP has paid the LL directly does that make a difference as acting as a guarantor would make it then difficult to argue that they have no liability due to the guarantor agreement having a fault.

It seems analagous to the situation of a LL asking for a rent increase where the actions of a tenant matter.  If the tenant starts paying the increased amount that cements that higher figure even with no formal paperwork beyond a request from the LL.

saajan_12

martindow said:

If the OP has paid the LL directly does that make a difference as acting as a guarantor would make it then difficult to argue that they have no liability due to the guarantor agreement having a fault.

It seems analagous to the situation of a LL asking for a rent increase where the actions of a tenant matter.  If the tenant starts paying the increased amount that cements that higher figure even with no formal paperwork beyond a request from the LL.

Not quite analogous, as a tenant paying the higher rent is indication / evidence of a contract, if nothing was written. Under the contract, T continues to get accommodation, LL gets the higher rent. 

A guarantee is a one way obligation, under which the guarantor gets nothing in return, hence its not a contract. That's why guarantees have more requirements to be valid (executed as a deed, witnessed, must be written) as its more than a contract. Paying under a supposed guarantee can't be evidence of a contract.