How to get back possession of house in Wales rented under a standard occupation contract?

housebuyer143

Hunty101 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Hunty101 said:

Alderbank said:

s21 is England.

In Wales you should serve s173. Your forward planning is not too good, the minimum notice period has recently been extended to 6 months. That does not guarantee eviction, it just means that next January is the earliest date that you could start proceedings leading to eviction.

What are your tenants like? If they do untenantlike things you might be able to evict earlier. On the other hand, if they are steady reliable tenants many landlords will be happy to buy the property with tenants in situ. Good tenants with a proven record are valued.

I don't think you're right. s173 notice is provided for a "no-fault" eviction which requires minimum notice period of six months. This wouldn't be a "no fault" notice - the tenant would be living at the property past the end of the fixed term contract. 

The definition of no fault is they haven't done anything wrong. Not leaving at the end of the fixed term when they haven't been served notice isn't incorrect. 
So the s173 with 6 months notice is the correct route.

I'm not really sure what you are talking about. Who said they haven't been served notice? 

They are in a fixed term contract which ends on 15 July. I have served them notice (Form 22 - LANDLORD’S NOTICE OF TERMINATION: FIXED TERM STANDARD CONTRACT WITHIN SCHEDULE 9B TO THE RENTING HOMES (WALES) ACT 2016) that they must leave at the end of the fixed term contract i.e. 15 July. 

So if they remain in the property post 15 July, they will be at fault.

Clear? 

So you entered into the contract with them on the 1st Jan and then issued them notice right away? 

You need to start court action on the expiry of the notice providing everything is in order.

Hunty101

housebuyer143 said:

Hunty101 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Hunty101 said:

Alderbank said:

s21 is England.

In Wales you should serve s173. Your forward planning is not too good, the minimum notice period has recently been extended to 6 months. That does not guarantee eviction, it just means that next January is the earliest date that you could start proceedings leading to eviction.

What are your tenants like? If they do untenantlike things you might be able to evict earlier. On the other hand, if they are steady reliable tenants many landlords will be happy to buy the property with tenants in situ. Good tenants with a proven record are valued.

I don't think you're right. s173 notice is provided for a "no-fault" eviction which requires minimum notice period of six months. This wouldn't be a "no fault" notice - the tenant would be living at the property past the end of the fixed term contract. 

The definition of no fault is they haven't done anything wrong. Not leaving at the end of the fixed term when they haven't been served notice isn't incorrect. 
So the s173 with 6 months notice is the correct route.

I'm not really sure what you are talking about. Who said they haven't been served notice? 

They are in a fixed term contract which ends on 15 July. I have served them notice (Form 22 - LANDLORD’S NOTICE OF TERMINATION: FIXED TERM STANDARD CONTRACT WITHIN SCHEDULE 9B TO THE RENTING HOMES (WALES) ACT 2016) that they must leave at the end of the fixed term contract i.e. 15 July. 

So if they remain in the property post 15 July, they will be at fault.

Clear? 

So you entered into the contract with them on the 1st Jan and then issued them notice right away? 

You need to start court action on the expiry of the notice providing everything is in order.

You are completely missing the point. Are you familiar with how renting in Wales work post changes in laws at the end of last year? 

We entered into a fixed term contract for 6 months. The contract expires at the end of the term. We confirmed to them via a Notice of Termination earlier this week that they must leave at the end of the fixed term. For fixed term contracts, notice can be given at any time before the end of the contract. There is not a six month notice period. 

housebuyer143

Hunty101 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Hunty101 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Hunty101 said:

Alderbank said:

s21 is England.

In Wales you should serve s173. Your forward planning is not too good, the minimum notice period has recently been extended to 6 months. That does not guarantee eviction, it just means that next January is the earliest date that you could start proceedings leading to eviction.

What are your tenants like? If they do untenantlike things you might be able to evict earlier. On the other hand, if they are steady reliable tenants many landlords will be happy to buy the property with tenants in situ. Good tenants with a proven record are valued.

I don't think you're right. s173 notice is provided for a "no-fault" eviction which requires minimum notice period of six months. This wouldn't be a "no fault" notice - the tenant would be living at the property past the end of the fixed term contract. 

The definition of no fault is they haven't done anything wrong. Not leaving at the end of the fixed term when they haven't been served notice isn't incorrect. 
So the s173 with 6 months notice is the correct route.

I'm not really sure what you are talking about. Who said they haven't been served notice? 

They are in a fixed term contract which ends on 15 July. I have served them notice (Form 22 - LANDLORD’S NOTICE OF TERMINATION: FIXED TERM STANDARD CONTRACT WITHIN SCHEDULE 9B TO THE RENTING HOMES (WALES) ACT 2016) that they must leave at the end of the fixed term contract i.e. 15 July. 

So if they remain in the property post 15 July, they will be at fault.

Clear? 

So you entered into the contract with them on the 1st Jan and then issued them notice right away? 

You need to start court action on the expiry of the notice providing everything is in order.

You are completely missing the point. Are you familiar with how renting in Wales work post changes in laws at the end of last year? 

We entered into a fixed term contract for 6 months. The contract expires at the end of the term. We confirmed to them via a Notice of Termination earlier this week that they must leave at the end of the fixed term. For fixed term contracts, notice can be given at any time before the end of the contract. There is not a six month notice period. 

I know exactly how it works, it seems like you don't. Others have given the same advice but you don't seem to want to accept it.

 You can't give people notice to leave at the end of the fixed term like this, you must give 6 months notice. 
Please see below from Welsh government website. Tenants are guaranteed 12 months in the property providing they do not do anything that breaches the contract.

The whole point of the changes is tenants have more security in Wales, not less. You have never been able to just ask a tenant to leave without 2 months notice previously, so you definitely can't do it now.

p00hsticks

Playing devil's advocate here (and admitting that I know very little about Welsh renting legislation) ....

given that the OP says that the reason for them wanting the tenants out is that their rent will not cover the mortgage once his/her fixed rate expires, is there anything that prevents him from increasing the rent to cover the increase in mortgage payments after the fixed term expires ? 

housebuyer143

p00hsticks said:

Playing devil's advocate here (and admitting that I know very little about Welsh renting legislation) given that the OP says that the reason for them wanting the tenants out is that their rent will not cover the mortgage once his/her fixed rate expires, is there anything that prevents him from increasing the rent to cover the increase in mortgage payments after the fixed term expires ? 

I believe you can at the end of the 6 months by serving the appropriate 2 months notice.

I guess if they get into arrears the OP can accelerate possession. 

Hunty101

I'm looking at Form RHW22 from the Welsh Government website. 

The title of the form is: LANDLORD’S NOTICE OF TERMINATION: FIXED TERM STANDARD CONTRACT WITHIN SCHEDULE 9B TO THE RENTING HOMES (WALES) ACT 2016

Part D refers to the following: 

In accordance with section 186 of the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016, the landlord gives notice to you, the contract-holder(s), that you must give up possession of the dwelling above on [DATE]

If you, the contract-holder(s), do not give up possession of the dwelling on the date specified above, the landlord may make a possession claim to the court.

This notice must be given before or on the last day of the term for which the contract was made.

Note: The specified date must not be before the last day of the term for which the occupation contract was made, or less than two months after the day on which this notice is given to the contract-holder(s).

---------------------

See the section I have bolded at the bottom. It notes that the specified date for giving up possession of the dwelling cannot be less than two months after the day on which this notice is given. Does that mean if I provide this notice today, they will have two months' notice to leave? 

I don't understand why everyone seems to think it is six months when the notice form suggests otherwise. 

Hunty101

gail5863 said:

Hi, we've got a rental property in Wales and I've found the Facebook Group - Welsh Landlords to be invaluable possibly good to look / ask on there. Also join the NRLA and they have a whole section on everything to do with renting in Wales. Having rentals in Wales is a total nightmare, everyone selling up, ridiculous situation with RentSmartWales and all else, hopeless. Hope this doesn't happen in England!  As previous poster said, S21 - but I don't think this is now valid in Wales.

Thank you for this. I requested to join the group yesterday and still have not been accepted. Do you know the Admin and if so, please could you ask them to accept my request? 

user1977

Hunty101 said:

I'm looking at Form RHW22 from the Welsh Government website. 

The title of the form is: LANDLORD’S NOTICE OF TERMINATION: FIXED TERM STANDARD CONTRACT WITHIN SCHEDULE 9B TO THE RENTING HOMES (WALES) ACT 2016

...

I don't understand why everyone seems to think it is six months when the notice form suggests otherwise. 

Is the tenancy one of the types specified in Schedule 9B?

housebuyer143

Hunty101 said:

I'm looking at Form RHW22 from the Welsh Government website. 

The title of the form is: LANDLORD’S NOTICE OF TERMINATION: FIXED TERM STANDARD CONTRACT WITHIN SCHEDULE 9B TO THE RENTING HOMES (WALES) ACT 2016

Part D refers to the following: 

In accordance with section 186 of the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016, the landlord gives notice to you, the contract-holder(s), that you must give up possession of the dwelling above on [DATE]

If you, the contract-holder(s), do not give up possession of the dwelling on the date specified above, the landlord may make a possession claim to the court.

This notice must be given before or on the last day of the term for which the contract was made.

Note: The specified date must not be before the last day of the term for which the occupation contract was made, or less than two months after the day on which this notice is given to the contract-holder(s).

---------------------

See the section I have bolded at the bottom. It notes that the specified date for giving up possession of the dwelling cannot be less than two months after the day on which this notice is given. Does that mean if I provide this notice today, they will have two months' notice to leave? 

I don't understand why everyone seems to think it is six months when the notice form suggests otherwise. 

Contacts entered into before 1dec 2022 could give 2 months notice until June this year, maybe that's the form for that. You are looking at RHW22 form but are you sure that's the right one? RHW16 seems to be the expected 6 months written on there. There are a lot of forms! 

https://www.gov.wales/renting-homes-forms-landlords

This is what the Welsh government have in the FAQs under notice. Unless the tenants have not paid the rent or are causing antisocial behaviour it sounds like a no fault eviction needs to be followed.

https://www.gov.wales/renting-homes-frequently-asked-questions-landlords#92291