Being pursued for a debt 4 years on from money received from an estate being paid out

Keep_pedalling

auser99 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Just tell them you no longer have the money so they can’t have it back.

I'm not sure if that is ever a defence is it?

They don’t need a defence, at the moment they are being asked to return the money to the administrator not the creditor. There is an implied threat that they could be perused by the creditor but that is not the case currently and I believe it likely that the threat is an empty one, so no harm in refusing to pay at the moment.

If this was an unknown debt that had crawled out of the woodwork after the administrator had placed an announcement in the London Gazette ( might be worth checking if they actually placed one) then the executor would be off the hook, but I can’t see how the administrator would not be aware of the debt owed to the deceased person’s landlord. If, as it sounds, this is a case of professional incompetence then the problem is the administrator’s not the beneficiaries. 

silvercar

I'd be inclined to keep quiet at this point. Don't even acknowledge the letter.

2 years have passed, it may be that other beneficiaries have passed away, how long will this administrator keep chasing, before saying to the landlord he can't pay the bill.

MattMattMattUK

silvercar said:

I'd be inclined to keep quiet at this point. Don't even acknowledge the letter.

2 years have passed, it may be that other beneficiaries have passed away, how long will this administrator keep chasing, before saying to the landlord he can't pay the bill.

Or before he has to fall back on his professional liability insurance, which it seems would be the correct route for this, being that potentially his negligence caused this additional cost. 

auser99

Ta all, holding off definitely feels the way for now.

One niggle is that the original fee this admin guy took, was based off a fixed percentage of the money left to each beneficiary.

If that value should thus have been 1k lower, than his fee should have been lower etc.

But the whole thing doesn't feel right, and seems to be a bit of a chancing of the arm to get some fees back to pay this off, implying it'll come back on us all otherwise.

auser99

silvercar said:

I'd be inclined to keep quiet at this point. Don't even acknowledge the letter.

2 years have passed, it may be that other beneficiaries have passed away, how long will this administrator keep chasing, before saying to the landlord he can't pay the bill.

Technically FOUR years have passed since this happened. The two year figure is for the rent arrears post passing away!
There's a lot of beneficiaries, so chasing them all sounds like a real mission. The admin's letter even said they're surprised the claimant is going to pursue this as the fees versus the outcome seem a bit unbalanced. But are expecting it to happen still.

optoutDB

To my untrained ear this all sounds like it's not your (Mums) problem, and the administrator is just trying it on, presumably having failed to negotiate a settlement with the landlord for the last 2 years. 

I must say that I'm interested to know whether the landlord was incompetent or knew that the rent wasn't being paid because the tenant had died.   


  

jlfrs01

Hi all, I have been an Executor so might have some experience which could be relevant here.
Firstly, if a Statutory Notice was published then any claimants would have upto 6 months to claim against the Estate, if not the term stretches out to an incredible 6 years, the latter dating from the date of death.
Secondly, if the amount being claimed is within the Estate's value then there is no reason not to settle it. Third, Executors are not personally liable for any debts but are responsible for its distribution. 
It sounds like in this case the landlord has contacted the administrator in the first instance who has in turn contacted an Executor as it is an Executor's duty to ensure all affairs are settled properly. It will be the Estate he will seek redress from, not the administrator's company and therefore the Executors' responsibility to resolve, even if a mistake has been made.
Should the landlord wish to go to court to recover his money he will need to provide proof of debt.
In my own experience, the Solicitor handling my late father's Probate application made a fairly serious mistake. I raised a formal complaint and received a significant sum as compensation.
If the Probate Administrator didn't issue a statutory notice and/or overlooked the rental agreement which has serious consequences for the Estate then a formal complaint with request for compensation could help lessen the blow. In any event, the Administrator should obtain full details of the debt and all beneficiaries contacted to pay the Estate back equally so the debt can be settled.
One last option is to stall if the 6 year mark is approaching at which point the claimant would need special circumstances to pursue the debt.

auser99

jlfrs01 said:

Hi all, I have been an Executor so might have some experience which could be relevant here.
Firstly, if a Statutory Notice was published then any claimants would have upto 6 months to claim against the Estate, if not the term stretches out to an incredible 6 years, the latter dating from the date of death.
Secondly, if the amount being claimed is within the Estate's value then there is no reason not to settle it. Third, Executors are not personally liable for any debts but are responsible for its distribution. 
It sounds like in this case the landlord has contacted the administrator in the first instance who has in turn contacted an Executor as it is an Executor's duty to ensure all affairs are settled properly. It will be the Estate he will seek redress from, not the administrator's company and therefore the Executors' responsibility to resolve, even if a mistake has been made.
Should the landlord wish to go to court to recover his money he will need to provide proof of debt.
In my own experience, the Solicitor handling my late father's Probate application made a fairly serious mistake. I raised a formal complaint and received a significant sum as compensation.
If the Probate Administrator didn't issue a statutory notice and/or overlooked the rental agreement which has serious consequences for the Estate then a formal complaint with request for compensation could help lessen the blow. In any event, the Administrator should obtain full details of the debt and all beneficiaries contacted to pay the Estate back equally so the debt can be settled.
One last option is to stall if the 6 year mark is approaching at which point the claimant would need special circumstances to pursue the debt.

Thanks for that, very useful indeed.
No idea how to check on that statutory notice element, is there an easy way? I'd assume the administrator could tell and it would have been his first check? Unless he's aware but hoping everyone else politely pays up without question and helps his case.

Just to check on that compensation element, is that for the landlord to help get his arrears back, or is that for the beneficiaries who suddenly have to find 1k?

Either way, it sounds like the first step is to not do anything, let this settle, but then start looking how to get the missing answers?

Shelldean

Sea_Shell said:

Being nosey...

How big was the estate, roughly?

It sound like HHs only got involved down the track when it became clear a substantial (?) estate was left un-administered.   Hence the 2 year delay, possibly?


Is that a usual timescale for these things?


ETA - although it's quite strange for an estate to be substantial if the deceased was renting, rather than owning property.   

Going off topic....sorry.
But OH Nan was renting a council place we knew she had a bit saved but nothing substantial. Turns out she had over 200k!!!!!I
So it does occasionally happen!

Shelldean

@auser99.

Did the administrator take over at time of death or at a later date?? 
I'm assuming this was a very distant relation to your mum. And she was found by the administrator?