Advice - buying a 'probate property'.

Poor_Boy

Hi,

I was hoping someone with knowledge of estate agent practice would be able to help with the below.

Are estate agents required (either by law or an industry code of conduct) to inform buyers that a property is a probate property, by the time an offer has been accepted?

My mother was looking for a second home for herself and my father so they could be close to my sister (for various reasons). They eventually found a suitable property, viewed it, discussed it with the estate agent, and at some point made an offer that was accepted. Then came all the paperwork, solicitors, surveyors, financial stuff, ad nauseum. It was only after all this had been done that we were told that the vendors had not yet received a Grant of Probate and we'd have to wait to complete. The offer was accepted last year (I need to check when. I think last Autumn), and the vendors only started the probate application in February of this year. We were all told 16 weeks max. We're at 18 weeks now and apparently just 3-4 weeks to go as it's with the examination team. Problem is, I've been reading that probate is taking between 6-12 months at the moment due to the backlog. The vendor's probate solicitor is probably reading direct from the probate tracker, but we know these estimates can be way, way off. It hasn't helped that the estate agents and solicitors on both sides have been really unprofessional - curt emails and being hung up on. My dad has dementia and my mum is caring for him and they want time with family, to be closer and to enjoy different surroundings around people that can help. We can't just sit and hope it will be 4 weeks when it could be 6 months. 

We'll ask the estate agent to pass on our contact details to the vendor and ask if we can communicate directly about this and maybe arrange a weekly tracker check. We may have to pull out. So, we were not told about the probate situation until, I think early this year, and when we were, we were told it should be max 16 weeks. Nothing was mentioned about the average being 9 months which is what I've read elsewhere. If we knew all of this earlier, and we may be waiting up to a year before completion, we would not have proceeded. I know all the admin can be done pre-probate and then completion happens post-probate, but surely this is dependent on all parties having this information.

All we can do now is try and get information and then make an informed decision, but at some point, we do wish to make a complaint about the estate agents. I have read the TPO code of conduct and, without it being mentioned, the probate situation would surely be something that should be mentioned in the advanced stages.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

jonnydeppiwish!

In short, no. But you can normally tell when a property is potentially a probable property. 

Given your parents with have to pay the additional tax, and with all the upkeep, surely it would be more beneficial for them to sell their own home?  That way they may have additional monies to fund any care that your dad may need if he has to go into care.

Flugelhorn

You can usually tell - "no upward / onward chain" - house clearly belonged to someone older etc etc and then you usually ask the question - has the owner moved elsewhere ? And it is really up to you to ask it 

EA will usually say then that it is either care home or one step further and you know what you are dealing with - personally I didn't put property on the market until I had the grant come though and similarly wouldn't buy unless they had already got it 

RAS

You could ask if it the probate application was on-line (the will is still posted) or whether it was a paper application. On-line applications tend to be granted more quickly.

Tiglet2

Poor_Boy said:

Hi,

I was hoping someone with knowledge of estate agent practice would be able to help with the below.

Are estate agents required (either by law or an industry code of conduct) to inform buyers that a property is a probate property, by the time an offer has been accepted?

My mother was looking for a second home for herself and my father so they could be close to my sister (for various reasons). They eventually found a suitable property, viewed it, discussed it with the estate agent, and at some point made an offer that was accepted. Then came all the paperwork, solicitors, surveyors, financial stuff, ad nauseum. It was only after all this had been done that we were told that the vendors had not yet received a Grant of Probate and we'd have to wait to complete. The offer was accepted last year (I need to check when. I think last Autumn), and the vendors only started the probate application in February of this year. We were all told 16 weeks max. We're at 18 weeks now and apparently just 3-4 weeks to go as it's with the examination team. Problem is, I've been reading that probate is taking between 6-12 months at the moment due to the backlog. The vendor's probate solicitor is probably reading direct from the probate tracker, but we know these estimates can be way, way off. It hasn't helped that the estate agents and solicitors on both sides have been really unprofessional - curt emails and being hung up on. My dad has dementia and my mum is caring for him and they want time with family, to be closer and to enjoy different surroundings around people that can help. We can't just sit and hope it will be 4 weeks when it could be 6 months. 

We'll ask the estate agent to pass on our contact details to the vendor and ask if we can communicate directly about this and maybe arrange a weekly tracker check. We may have to pull out. So, we were not told about the probate situation until, I think early this year, and when we were, we were told it should be max 16 weeks. Nothing was mentioned about the average being 9 months which is what I've read elsewhere. If we knew all of this earlier, and we may be waiting up to a year before completion, we would not have proceeded. I know all the admin can be done pre-probate and then completion happens post-probate, but surely this is dependent on all parties having this information.

All we can do now is try and get information and then make an informed decision, but at some point, we do wish to make a complaint about the estate agents. I have read the TPO code of conduct and, without it being mentioned, the probate situation would surely be something that should be mentioned in the advanced stages.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

In property sales, the EA is merely acting as a salesperson to sell the property.  They don't do any or much due diligence to check what the vendor tells them.  That's what the solicitors are for, in EA understanding.  For the EA to have provided you with accurate information regarding the status of the probate, they would have to have been told this by the vendor.  Can you prove that the vendor told them that probate hadn't been applied for when first advertising the property?

The solicitor checks all the details and facts and, as you have now discovered, the situation is that probate was not granted before the property was advertised for sale, and, it seems, not applied for until several months after the offer was accepted.  Actually the vendor is the party holding everything up.  You sound angry at the EA and the solicitor, but the vendor should certainly have applied for probate as soon as they advertised the property for sale, if not before.  

A probate solicitor is mentioned.  If this means that the vendor has appointed a probate solicitor to deal with the grant of probate, rather than doing it themselves, this will take far longer.  Why?  Because the probate solicitor will be dealing with many clients and will do things in a methodical way and in an order of priority to their other work.  If you take on applying for probate yourself, you tend to be on it the minute something needs to be done or paperwork is requested.

I am sorry you have been receiving curt emails and being cut off the telephone.  While it is unprofessional, it sounds as though they have told you the same update over and over again.  Constantly chasing them will not make the granting of the probate happen any quicker, particularly as neither party are actually the ones dealing with the probate, and they are wasting their time providing you with no update, rather than being able to get on with work they can get on with.  

Having said all that, it sounds as though probate could be imminent, so perhaps hold on for a bit longer?

MeteredOut

The offer was agreed around the peak of the market last year, but not likely to close until a period of time where prices are starting to drop.

If there's a will and they are willing to take the risk (perhaps not given their circumstances), it sounds like an opportunity to renegotiate on price...