LPA abuse

KJAVW

Dads been in a specialist secure Dementia care home for 4 years and family member was supporting him (lets call them TP)  Dad died and I am one of the Executors. It transpires that in the last 6months an LPA for finances was registered with the Office of the Public Guardians (OPG) .  However we can't understand how this is possible as Dad has had Alzheimers for 4-5 years, and when he went into the care home a Deprivation of Liberty assessment (DoLs) was put in place. The certificate provide was someone my Dad hadn't seen for years and even then only a fleeting connection and they attended the care home with TP and signed to say Dad had his mental capacity!  Surely this should have been a court of protection order and they didn't tell anyone else in the family so we had no idea this had happened.

As Executors, we now have access to Dads bank statements and its become clear that TP has had Dads bank card for at least three years and has been systematically draining cash from the account and when he got the LPA this stepped up and he hasn't paid some bills. There are purchases on Dads bank account for holidays, petrol, young trendy clothing (he was 92), Ikea, and onlline grocery shopping so presumably it would be easy to trace who actually got the stuff if they had the right powers. Tried reporting to the OPG and they say that their power stopped when Dad died.  Tried claiming fraud with the bank and they say they were not advised Dad was a vulnerable person nor was the LPA registered with them and its basically our word against TPs that Dad hadn't given him permission to spend his money but Dad didn't have the mental capacity.  They say we should have reported this sooner but we had no reason to suspect or have access to the documents. 

We know TP knew Dad had been diagnosed with Dementia as he told the local authority that Dad had dementia to get a concession on Council Tax nearly 4 years ago and they confirmed it with the GP. We have reported it to the police as the bank is £50-£100,000 adrift and they have taken a statement and they are investigating but I have been advised by a knowledgeable friend that this is possibly going to be classed as a civil not police matter.  Surely this can't be right?

Where do we go from here, any advice?

Keep_pedalling

The police may try to claim it is a civil matter, but this looks like a clear case of fraud and one that should be very easy to prove. 

Why did none of his close family apply for deputyship to manage his finances 4 years ago? 

elsien

How did you all think your father’s finances were being managed over the last few years without any legal authority?

A dementia diagnosis and DoLS doesn’t automatically mean that someone lacks capacity to complete an LPA. I have known people in care homes in that situation who didn’t understand their finances but were still legally able to complete a power-of-attorney, capacity being decision specific. 

Who arranged the care home and how was it being paid for? Was there a social worker involved and do you know if anyone considered capacity around finances at any point since he moved into care? 

If your father had previously set up a third-party bank mandate, it could be hard to prove the point at which he lost capacity, in retrospect. I have to be honest, I think you’re going to have a fight on your hands to get the police to show any interest because unless there is someone who can evidence when your dad lost capacity specifically around his finances, it’s going to be hard to prove that it was fraud rather than gifts. 

KJAVW

 Keep_pedalling said:

The police may try to claim it is a civil matter, but this looks like a clear case of fraud and one that should be very easy to prove. 

Why did none of his close family apply for deputyship to manage his finances 4 years ago? 

Dad and Mum divorced, I was with Mum at one side of the country caring for her and Dad was at the other side of the country with other family members incl TP.  This was a very close family member and they were supposed to have been getting LPA prior to diagnosis but Dad didn't take the suggestion he may have early stages of dementia well and fought the suggestion.  Plus in fairness he wanted me to look after him, not TP, but I couldn't be in two places at once and work and I have a dicky ticker. We were trying to talk him round but then he got a firm diagnosis of dementia so the opportunity was lost - or so we thought!  I have to wonder if Dad didn't know what TP would be like and if that was part of the reason he wouldn't agree to the LPA. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Whilst my relationship with TP was never the best, I never had reason to doubt their integrity when it came to Dad and his wellbeing.  Plus TP has a high level job that looks after vulnerable people so felt TP was ultimately suitable

I've learnt my lesson, me and my husband have just done our LPA's appointing two reps each as a failsafe! You live and learn.

KJAVW

elsien said:

How did you all think your father’s finances were being managed over the last few years without any legal authority?

A dementia diagnosis and DoLS doesn’t automatically mean that someone lacks capacity to complete an LPA. I have known people in care homes in that situation who didn’t understand their finances but were still legally able to complete a power-of-attorney.

Who arranged the care home and how was it being paid for? Was there a social worker involved and do you know if anyone considered capacity around finances at any point since he moved into care? 

If your father had previously set up a third-party bank mandate, it could be hard to prove the point at which he lost capacity, in retrospect. I have to be honest, I think you’re going to have a fight on your hands to get the police to show any interest because unless there is someone who can evidence when your dad lost capacity specifically around his finances, it’s going to be hard to prove that it was fraud rather than gifts. 

So I wasn't managing his affairs I was managing mums, and the benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing.  

When my fellow executor spoke with the local authority, they said there was no allocated case worker.

TP arranged the care home and unbeknownst to us was using the bank dispenser card to get  the money out to pay the care home fees but he wasn't paying them...this has only just come to light.  The bank have confirmed there was no third party mandate and that they were not aware of his vulnerable status.  Money was accessed purely via Dads contactless debit card and TP had never registered the LPA with them anyway.

But aren't people with an LPA supposed to act in the best interest of the person that gave them the power.  Is not paying bills, bouncing DD's and mismanaging affairs in their best interest?  

I've never managed the affairs of someone in care so I don't know the mechanics of it....I look after mum at home.

elsien

People don’t have permanently allocated social workers so it may be worth asking if anyone was allocated previously when your dad moved into care who might have a view on his understanding at the time. I’m also wondering if there is a way of flagging up that TP is working with vulnerable people when they potentially shouldn’t be. 

Yes, someone with an LPA should act in the best interest of the person, but as you found out the OPG don’t look at this in retrospect. It’s hard enough to get them to act while the person is still alive.


 

KJAVW

elsien said:

People don’t have permanently allocated social workers so it may be worth asking if anyone was allocated previously when your dad moved into care who might have a view on his understanding at the time. I’m also wondering if there is a way of flagging up that TP is working with vulnerable people when they potentially shouldn’t be. 

Yes, someone with an LPA should act in the best interest of the person, but as you found out the OPG don’t look at this in retrospect. It’s hard enough to get them to act while the person is still alive.


 

Thank you.  Ironically when we were first trying to get Dad diagnosed with dementia, one of the many letters we sent to the GP and social services expressed our concern about his financial vulnerability due to events that had happened but at that stage they said he had his own mental capacity and if he wanted to do stupid things, that was his choice.  

I hear what you are saying about TPs employer and that is a route I am investigating but if we can't prove TP was acting inappropriately in the eyes of the law, how can I flag up to the employer that TP was acting inappropriately without landing myself in hot water.

I do have one other potential recourse but I will leave that until after the Police have taken the statement and see where that goes.

Can I just ask you to clarify what you mean by third party mandate? I'm assuming you mean authority to use his banks account?  I know beside an LPA you can go to the bank and mandate someone to act on your behalf but there isn't anything.  Also my understanding is that to use the bank card legally or undertake any transactions with the bank, you need to register the LPA with the bank and TP didn't and most of the withdrawals were pre the LPA, surely that is fraud and misrepresentation.

elsien

A third-party bank mandate is when the person gives permission for someone else to access their account to pay bills and get money out for and It’s only effective for as long as someone has capacity.

There wasn’t one here, but playing Devil’s Advocate for a moment there could be the possibility that your dad willingly gave his card to TP to use, initially at least. This would be against the bank’s terms and conditions but it is something that a lot of people do regardless. It’s not illegal. 

Which is why trying to get all the evidence that you can about his level of understanding is what may prompt the police to take it a little more seriously. But having enough to prosecute and the CPS deciding it’s in the public interest may be a step too far.

KJAVW

elsien said:

A third-party bank mandate is when the person gives permission for someone else to access their account to pay bills and get money out for and It’s only effective for as long as someone has capacity.

There wasn’t one here, but playing Devil’s Advocate for a moment there could be the possibility that your dad willingly gave his card to TP to use, initially at least. This would be against the bank’s terms and conditions but it is something that a lot of people do regardless. It’s not illegal. 

Which is why trying to get all the evidence that you can about his level of understanding is what may prompt the police to take it a little more seriously. But having enough to prosecute and the CPS deciding it’s in the public interest may be a step too far.

I have bank statements, copy LPA, proof of none payments of invoices, unauthorised bank charges, copies of emails sent to social workers and GP right back at the beginning about Dad giving his card to others and how he was susceptible to financial abuse.  It just so happened that the person he tried to give the card to, rang me as he didn't need the card for what he had been asked to do by Dad.  But as I think I may have mentioned earlier, initially when Dad was assessed they said he had diminished mental capacity but still had capacity to make his own decisions although they did say he was on a slippery slope and they expected to be back within a year with a diagnosis of dementia.  And they did.

Just had third parties now coming forward saying my Dad did not trust TP and they are willing to give statements about comments Dad had made about TP directly to them, with regard to TP raiding cash from the house and this was before he was placed in the care home,  I knew none of this.

I also have an email from TP stating that they were aware that sums of money were going missing early on, before Dad went in the care home and did nothing about it???  This was a few years before they applied for the LPA. Can't believe this is all coming out now. 

Savvy_Sue

Who are the other executors? And is TP one of the beneficiaries?

KJAVW

Savvy_Sue said:

Who are the other executors? And is TP one of the beneficiaries?

Yes TP would have been received a small inheritance had there been any money in the estate but its insolvent now so there won't be money for anyone, including care home fees.  Me and a solicitor as Executors and before you ask there is no money for the Solicitor to handle this element of the issue.