Martin Lewis: Why are energy standing charges so high? What can be done

matt_drummer

QrizB said:

Just thinking about this ...

If:

• A 2kW generator costs £1200 (example Honda generator here) and lasts for 10000 hours (20MWh) (possibly an over-estimate) the capital cost of the generator is 6p/kWh.
• It's going to need servicing every 100 hours (200kWh), and a service kit is £20, that's another 10p/kWh.
• Fuel is £1.40/litre and each litre yields 2kWh, so 70p/kWh.

That's a LCOE of 86p/kWh. Compared to mains electricity on the current cap at 24.5p/kWh and 61p/day SC, the break-even is very close to 1kWh/day.

But you'd only have electricity when the generator was running, and you'd be responsible for managing your own fuel supply and doing your own maintenance ...

But at least the greedy energy companies wouldn't be getting any of it!

GingerTim

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

Just thinking about this ...

If:

• A 2kW generator costs £1200 (example Honda generator here) and lasts for 10000 hours (20MWh) (possibly an over-estimate) the capital cost of the generator is 6p/kWh.
• It's going to need servicing every 100 hours (200kWh), and a service kit is £20, that's another 10p/kWh.
• Fuel is £1.40/litre and each litre yields 2kWh, so 70p/kWh.

That's a LCOE of 86p/kWh. Compared to mains electricity on the current cap at 24.5p/kWh and 61p/day SC, the break-even is very close to 1kWh/day.

But you'd only have electricity when the generator was running, and you'd be responsible for managing your own fuel supply and doing your own maintenance ...

But at least the greedy energy companies wouldn't be getting any of it!

Just the greedy petroleum companies!

pseudodox

Whilst I might not like the actual percentage of my bills that is the s/c I am happy to pay this universal cost to have energy on demand 24/7/365.  Everyone gets the same availability.  My car costs money even if I go nowhere, but I don't calculate my mpg cost by including the VED, insurance, repair & service costs.  However I can jump in the car at a moments notice & drive as far as I choose.

I am a low energy user, far from rich, no batteries or solar panels etc.  But I live a comfortable life with heating, lighting, cooking facilities, clean water & other everyday "essentials" of a modern society at my fingertips.  Beats living a Third World life so I consider myself rich in many ways beyond financially.

MattMattMattUK

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MikeJXE said:

Not necessarily some anti standing charge customers are rich who can afford solar panels that for some covers there entire electric bill and some more 

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Why do you feel that paying for your grid connection and contributing towards the maintenance of the grid is "unfair"?

Because - if you look at the reason for charging - we are paying for the transport of energy - either electricity or gas and that should be paid on quantity transported not a standard amount

You are paying for having the facility to transport energy to your home. The transport costs that are variable, losses, etc. are on the unit rate. On the basis if your reply it does appear that you feel it is unfair that you should pay for your grid connection, unless you would like to clearly state otherwise?

MouldyOldDough

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MikeJXE said:

Not necessarily some anti standing charge customers are rich who can afford solar panels that for some covers there entire electric bill and some more 

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Why do you feel that paying for your grid connection and contributing towards the maintenance of the grid is "unfair"?

Because - if you look at the reason for charging - we are paying for the transport of energy - either electricity or gas and that should be paid on quantity transported not a standard amount

You are paying for having the facility to transport energy to your home. The transport costs that are variable, losses, etc. are on the unit rate. On the basis if your reply it does appear that you feel it is unfair that you should pay for your grid connection, unless you would like to clearly state otherwise?

No, I am not saying that - I am just saying that it would be a fairer method to charge by the kW for SC !!

So lower users pay less.

GingerTim

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MikeJXE said:

Not necessarily some anti standing charge customers are rich who can afford solar panels that for some covers there entire electric bill and some more 

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Why do you feel that paying for your grid connection and contributing towards the maintenance of the grid is "unfair"?

Because - if you look at the reason for charging - we are paying for the transport of energy - either electricity or gas and that should be paid on quantity transported not a standard amount

You are paying for having the facility to transport energy to your home. The transport costs that are variable, losses, etc. are on the unit rate. On the basis if your reply it does appear that you feel it is unfair that you should pay for your grid connection, unless you would like to clearly state otherwise?

No, I am not saying that - I am just saying that it would be a fairer method to charge by the kW for SC !!

So lower users pay less.

But that's unfair on those who have to use more owing to health problems, disabilities, poor housing stock etc.

molerat

MouldyOldDough said:

No, I am not saying that - I am just saying that it would be a fairer method to charge by the kW for SC !!

So lower users pay less.

But it costs the same to deliver 1 kWh to your house as it does 20K kWh.  It costs the same to dig a hole in the road to fix the main leading to your low use house as it does to the high use house. It costs the same to drive to Tesco to buy 1 tin of beans as it does to buy 100 tins.

You are saying that someone else should pay your share of making sure you have a supply at your house.  There are many things that have fixed costs no matter how much you use and It seems to be the current trend to believe that someone else should pay, the law of unintended consequences often means it is those that can least afford it end up footing the bill.

The_Green_Hornet

After 37 pages of comments has anyone changed their view on standing charges yet?

What we need now is another thread on smart meters. 😉

Merry Christmas 🎄and A Happy New Year 🎆

matt_drummer

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MikeJXE said:

Not necessarily some anti standing charge customers are rich who can afford solar panels that for some covers there entire electric bill and some more 

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Why do you feel that paying for your grid connection and contributing towards the maintenance of the grid is "unfair"?

Because - if you look at the reason for charging - we are paying for the transport of energy - either electricity or gas and that should be paid on quantity transported not a standard amount

You are paying for having the facility to transport energy to your home. The transport costs that are variable, losses, etc. are on the unit rate. On the basis if your reply it does appear that you feel it is unfair that you should pay for your grid connection, unless you would like to clearly state otherwise?

No, I am not saying that - I am just saying that it would be a fairer method to charge by the kW for SC !!

So lower users pay less.

Lower users do pay less!

MattMattMattUK

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MikeJXE said:

Not necessarily some anti standing charge customers are rich who can afford solar panels that for some covers there entire electric bill and some more 

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Why do you feel that paying for your grid connection and contributing towards the maintenance of the grid is "unfair"?

Because - if you look at the reason for charging - we are paying for the transport of energy - either electricity or gas and that should be paid on quantity transported not a standard amount

You are paying for having the facility to transport energy to your home. The transport costs that are variable, losses, etc. are on the unit rate. On the basis if your reply it does appear that you feel it is unfair that you should pay for your grid connection, unless you would like to clearly state otherwise?

No, I am not saying that - I am just saying that it would be a fairer method to charge by the kW for SC !!

So lower users pay less.

Fixed costs are attributed to the standing charge, variable costs are attributed to the unit rate. So everyone pays for their connection, and everyone pays for their connection. You keep claiming you want a fair/fairer system, whilst simultaneously wanting to change to a system where average and higher users subsidise lower users, those are contradictory positions.