Martin Lewis: Why are energy standing charges so high? What can be done

GingerTim

MouldyOldDough said:

matt_drummer said:

MouldyOldDough said:

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Use some more then?

If you do, the standing charge will be a lower percentage of your bill, and then you'll be happy, right?

And the costs would be more ?

unless we go down the route of everyone paying a standard charge for power - no matter how much you use ?

That's what the standing charge is.

matt_drummer

MouldyOldDough said:

matt_drummer said:

MouldyOldDough said:

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Use some more then?

If you do, the standing charge will be a lower percentage of your bill, and then you'll be happy, right?

And the costs would be more ?

unless we go down the route of everyone paying a standard charge for power - no matter how much you use ?

So you are saving money by using less.

Exactly what some people say you can't do because of the standing charge.

There are fixed costs that have to be covered and this has been deemed the fairest way to do it.

You may feel that it would be cheaper for you if it was all incorporated into a unit rate, and it may well be.

But that would mean that there is no guarantee that the standing costs would be covered,

And you have heard all of the other arguments many times before, you know, those surrounding high users that are often the most vulnerable and least well off?

And they all have to pay more so people like you don't have to?

You are already spending very little on energy if the standing charge makes up 75% of your bill at times.

The standing charge for electricity is only about £15 a month so if you are only getting bills for £20 a month then it is a bit of a stretch to claim it is unfair and unaffordable?

MouldyOldDough

400ixl said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MikeJXE said:

Not necessarily some anti standing charge customers are rich who can afford solar panels that for some covers there entire electric bill and some more 

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Why do you feel that paying for your grid connection and contributing towards the maintenance of the grid is "unfair"?

Because - if you look at the reason for charging - we are paying for the transport of energy - either electricity or gas and that should be paid on quantity transported not a standard amount

You are paying for the capability to transport energy (amongst other things) in the standing charge. The unit rate includes the quantity transported.

That's exactly what I am saying - why should I pay to transport everyone else's energy when I use very little myself ?

matt_drummer

MouldyOldDough said:

400ixl said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MikeJXE said:

Not necessarily some anti standing charge customers are rich who can afford solar panels that for some covers there entire electric bill and some more 

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Why do you feel that paying for your grid connection and contributing towards the maintenance of the grid is "unfair"?

Because - if you look at the reason for charging - we are paying for the transport of energy - either electricity or gas and that should be paid on quantity transported not a standard amount

You are paying for the capability to transport energy (amongst other things) in the standing charge. The unit rate includes the quantity transported.

That's exactly what I am saying - why should I pay to transport everyone else's energy when I use very little myself ?

But when you want to boil your kettle, say, you expect there to be 3kW of power there, ready for you to use whenever you want it?

You are paying for the facility amongst other things.

The actual transmission of each kWh of electricity to your home is included in the unit price.

The stuff has to be there to supply you with however much you want when you want it, that is what you pay for.

You, me and everybody else has a service available to them 24 hours a day to take as little or as much as they wish, whenever they wish.

50p a day for that and all the other things it covers isn't bad, it's actually a bargain if you really think about it.

QrizB

matt_drummer said:

MouldyOldDough said:

matt_drummer said:

MouldyOldDough said:

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Use some more then?
If you do, the standing charge will be a lower percentage of your bill, and then you'll be happy, right?

And the costs would be more ?

unless we go down the route of everyone paying a standard charge for power - no matter how much you use ?

So you are saving money by using less.
Exactly what some people say you can't do because of the standing charge.

And of course if you go so far that you use "none", you can ask to be disconnected and stop paying the standing charge.

(There will be a point, somewhere in the hundreds of kWh a year, where it's cheaper to do without a grid connection and, instead, obtain your electricity buy alternative means. HertsLad is there already, as you'll see from his "off-grid" thread.)

matt_drummer

QrizB said:

matt_drummer said:

MouldyOldDough said:

matt_drummer said:

MouldyOldDough said:

I am happy with that because they are adding to their "green credentials" but I am a very low user and feel that an unfair charge is added to my monthly bill (sometimes 75% of my bill is SC..)

Use some more then?
If you do, the standing charge will be a lower percentage of your bill, and then you'll be happy, right?

And the costs would be more ?

unless we go down the route of everyone paying a standard charge for power - no matter how much you use ?

So you are saving money by using less.
Exactly what some people say you can't do because of the standing charge.

And of course if you go so far that you use "none", you can ask to be disconnected and stop paying the standing charge.

(There will be a point, somewhere in the hundreds of kWh a year, where it's cheaper to do without a grid connection and, instead, obtain your electricity buy alternative means. HertsLad is there already, as you'll see from his "off-grid" thread.)

Just get a diesel generator?

If you use that little and never need a large amount at any time, may well make sense?

QrizB

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

And of course if you go so far that you use "none", you can ask to be disconnected and stop paying the standing charge.

(There will be a point, somewhere in the hundreds of kWh a year, where it's cheaper to do without a grid connection and, instead, obtain your electricity buy alternative means. HertsLad is there already, as you'll see from his "off-grid" thread.)

Just get a diesel generator?
If you use that little and never need a large amount at any time, may well make sense?

A generator would be better with a battery, since then you could run it for an hour or two a day rather than having it to idle. But yes, that sort of thing.

And if you've got a battery, you could use solar for ~half the year rather than the generator.

matt_drummer

QrizB said:

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

And of course if you go so far that you use "none", you can ask to be disconnected and stop paying the standing charge.

(There will be a point, somewhere in the hundreds of kWh a year, where it's cheaper to do without a grid connection and, instead, obtain your electricity buy alternative means. HertsLad is there already, as you'll see from his "off-grid" thread.)

Just get a diesel generator?
If you use that little and never need a large amount at any time, may well make sense?

A generator would be better with a battery, since then you could run it for an hour or two a day rather than having it to idle. But yes, that sort of thing.

And if you've got a battery, you could use solar for ~half the year rather than the generator.

Or you could just pay 50p a day and let somebody else worry about it?

QrizB

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

And of course if you go so far that you use "none", you can ask to be disconnected and stop paying the standing charge.

(There will be a point, somewhere in the hundreds of kWh a year, where it's cheaper to do without a grid connection and, instead, obtain your electricity buy alternative means. HertsLad is there already, as you'll see from his "off-grid" thread.)

Just get a diesel generator?
If you use that little and never need a large amount at any time, may well make sense?

A generator would be better with a battery, since then you could run it for an hour or two a day rather than having it to idle. But yes, that sort of thing.

And if you've got a battery, you could use solar for ~half the year rather than the generator.

Or you could just pay 50p a day and let somebody else worry about it?

Exactly. That's the choice for the consumer to make.

QrizB

Just thinking about this ...

If:

• A 2kW generator costs £1200 (example Honda generator here) and lasts for 10000 hours (20MWh) (possibly an over-estimate) the capital cost of the generator is 6p/kWh.
• It's going to need servicing every 100 hours (200kWh), and a service kit is £20, that's another 10p/kWh.
• Fuel is £1.40/litre and each litre yields 2kWh, so 70p/kWh.

That's a LCOE of 86p/kWh. Compared to mains electricity on the current cap at 24.5p/kWh and 61p/day SC, the break-even is very close to 1kWh/day.

But you'd only have electricity when the generator was running, and you'd be responsible for managing your own fuel supply and doing your own maintenance ...