Martin Lewis: Why are energy standing charges so high? What can be done

Qyburn

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

20-25p of the standing charge covers billing, admin, meter reading, etc, basic business overheads, a government run entity to provide supply could fund such costs via taxation

If funded from taxation, shouldn't there also be an obligation to supply everyone? I'm thinking of gas specifically, but there may be a few households who can't even get electricity.

BarelySentientAI

Qyburn said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

20-25p of the standing charge covers billing, admin, meter reading, etc, basic business overheads, a government run entity to provide supply could fund such costs via taxation

If funded from taxation, shouldn't there also be an obligation to supply everyone? I'm thinking of gas specifically, but there may be a few households who can't even get electricity.

No.  Funded from taxation does not mean universal service.

bristolleedsfan

British Gas launched new fixed versions yesterday, higher gas unit rate, not currently offering cheaper SC version to new customers.

As of now still available to existing customers.

Fixed Lighter 12M v3  Fixed Tariff 12M v4 

xflare

noooooooooooo!!  i was going to switch to that BG tariff lol

wrf12345

BG, may be able to switch to variable then Lighter? New price cap tomorrow, so wait to see where s/c's go?

xflare

wrf12345 said:

BG, may be able to switch to variable then Lighter? New price cap tomorrow, so wait to see where s/c's go?

Yes, but i think standing charges are staying the same in the new price cap.  Im going to contact OVO about a fixed tariff that shows on the MSE energy comparison tool - 1 Year Fixed Go Smart 16 May 2024.

UPDATE: That OVO tariif is not available to anyone with a smart meter already installed.

JoshinLeeds

I know this had been noted before but the standing charge structure in France Is interesting https://en.selectra.info/energy-france/guides/electricity/tariffs

MattMattMattUK

To give people an idea in amps that works out as:
3kVa = 13A
6kVa = 26A
9kVa = 39A
12kVa = 52A
15kVa = 65A
18kVa = 78A
24kVa = 104A
30kVa = 130A
36kVa = 156A

The majority of UK domestic premises are on an 80amp connection, newer properties (built in the last 10-15 years) usually have a 100amp supply and some older properties might be on a 50 or 60 amp connection, although many of those will have been upgraded. 

As an example on the lowest supply level then using a kettle at the same times as the oven, hob, microwave etc. would exceed the supply limit, the lowest few are usually for outbuildings that just need lighting or a low usage occasionally. 

I think nearly all domestic properties will be in a similar supply range to the UK, that 60-100amp range. In the UK I think it would be a difficult system to introduce because people simply would not understand it, people would choose the cheapest version then have a tantrum when they got charged for exceeding it. One only has to look at how few people understand energy in the UK as it is, or those who cannot even tell the difference between a smart meter and an IHD to see of the problems it would cause. 

In the medium and long term it makes sense not to cap supply, but to move everyone to full ToU tariffs, which I believe France is aiming to do by 2040 at the latest. 

Chris_b2z

The French system seems so much simpler and fairer. Those that need a higher rating supply pay higher standing charge with 70% of households selecting the 6kVA option. Genius!

How is that implemented? Is there a separate breaker that trips whenever the subscribed limit is exceeded? Can the kVA rating be changed remotely for free? Do the same s/c and usage rates apply across all regions in France?

MattMattMattUK

Chris_b2z said:

The French system seems so much simpler

It is more complicated, in the UK everyone pays the same (within a region), where as France has nine different rates for single phase and eight for three-phase and that is just domestic supply.

Chris_b2z said:

 and fairer. 

Why do you deem it fairer? Do you mean it is more "fair" because you would lay less?

Chris_b2z said:

Those that need a higher rating supply pay higher standing charge with 70% of households selecting the 6kVA option. 

According to online research flats tend to have the 9kVa option, with houses using the higher options, however for electric heating which is more popular way from major cities then 18+ is required to allow for enough yo operate heating.

Chris_b2z said:
Genius!

Not really, genius is ToU tariffs, which the French are ahead of us on and they will be full ToU before we have got up and running.

Chris_b2z said:

How is that implemented? Is there a separate breaker that trips whenever the subscribed limit is exceeded? 

It depends on the implementation. Sometimes the meter will supply no more power than limited and that will cause appliances to stop working, but it will not trip. In others the user can go over by a small amount a few times a year, but they get bumped up to the next tier and then cannot drop back down for a year. Sometimes that will also result in the charge being backdated to the beginning of the billing period.

Chris_b2z said:

Can the kVA rating be changed remotely for free? 

Users can go up at any time, but it might take a week to go live, depending on the relevant wiring it might take longer if components need to be upgraded. Users can only go down the tier if their usage has been below the threshold for three months and they have not previously exceeded their limit.

Chris_b2z said:

Do the same s/c and usage rates apply across all regions in France?

For mainland France yes, overseas departments have their own pricing. That is the nature of EDF being the sole domestic supplier and most of the generation coming from nuclear (the French invested huge amounts in nuclear energy).