Which Cam Belt KIt??

ombos

Hi all, this topic keeps popping up again and again across the net. Value for money vs Quality or is it. This will be a long one but worth reading. I was in the motor trade for years, Volvo, Renault and Vauxhall Tech, MOT QC and last off teaching MV at the local Collage. So its time to change your cambelt (refer to manufactures specs and not hear say). Many are 4 years 40,000 and many a lot longer. First question should I put off having my cambelt changed?? Depends on many factors but lets take the sensible route, NO, ok for a few months longer or a few 1000s miles but in general go for a change sooner rather than later. I've seen too many peoples face when they hear their engine requires £1000s of work due to a snapped belt. I've yet to see one snap early unless there's been another fault. So back to the topic which kit should I purchase and why?? What is a 'Kit' A Cam belt kit will have (normally and this varies)  the cam belt, water pump, idler roller/s belt tensioner, gaskets. You can also buy a kit which contains just the belt, tensioner and roller/s. If you engine has the water option it makes sense in every way to purchase the full kit. Who wants to fit belt etc for the water pump to fail and then damage the new belt and lead to engine engine damage, at best if the pump leaks you'll be paying for the job to done again. So now in general we know we want a full cam belt kit, which one? Ive read so many blogs that this make or that make is the best but how people really know what they are buying??? You don't, lets look at GATES, one of the best but are all part in that kit made by GATES?? No of course not. They will get other manufactures rollers etc. BUT they will all be to the same high quality!! Only today Ive open a Gates box with DayCo tensioner inside and if you purchase INA kit which is made by a bearing company you get their bearings but what belt?? When you purchase any kit you get a fruit salad of parts, and if any fail in use its costly. Volvo timing belts at one time even though they had Volvo on them came from GATES.  So in a nut shell my advise is this: Any quality manufacture will be good to go in general, on certain makes and certain engines (mostly high performance) one manufactures kit seem to suit that bit better. So a GATES, INA, DAYCO, Contitech etc will do. Any good quality brand will do just fine. And dont panic if some parts say made in China, China like anywhere can make high quality items and they are made to the spec ordered!!!! Order cheap you get cheap order top notch you get that. (But I am bias for German made items ) but dont tell anyone. Don't let others peoples bias influence you. Plus the main factor in any job is doing it right, get that wrong and no matter what manufacture you use the parts will fail, period. I'd rather have a cheap kit fitted well than the most expensive fitted poorly. Oh that reminds  me, listen to this one. At one main dealer a customer brought his car for a cam belt, the mechanic and I say that loosely fitted it wrong and cracked the engine over!!! Result bent valves and the service manger told the customer that the belt had snapped when the car was driven in!!!! I kid you not. Oh main dealer kits are not made by the main dealer, how could they be??? But if you feel better paying £200 more go for it. Id fit a GATES or any of the above to any standard engine in the world. If the people that fit the stuff dont purchase items from the main dealer, why should you and watch out for a dealer telling you you've paid for a main dealer part what you've had a really cheap and nasty one fitted and cheap and nasty kits are out there, You pays your money etc. 

HillStreetBlues

Any chance of it being broken down in paragraphs?

Barkin

In other words... 

Get it done when it should be done. 
Do the water pump at the same time. 
Use good quality parts, as most of the cost is labour. 

I think that covers it. 

motorguy

ombos said:

Hi all, this topic keeps popping up again and again across the net. Value for money vs Quality or is it. This will be a long one but worth reading. I was in the motor trade for years, Volvo, Renault and Vauxhall Tech, MOT QC and last off teaching MV at the local Collage. So its time to change your cambelt (refer to manufactures specs and not hear say). Many are 4 years 40,000 and many a lot longer. First question should I put off having my cambelt changed?? Depends on many factors but lets take the sensible route, NO, ok for a few months longer or a few 1000s miles but in general go for a change sooner rather than later. I've seen too many peoples face when they hear their engine requires £1000s of work due to a snapped belt. I've yet to see one snap early unless there's been another fault. So back to the topic which kit should I purchase and why?? What is a 'Kit' A Cam belt kit will have (normally and this varies)  the cam belt, water pump, idler roller/s belt tensioner, gaskets. You can also buy a kit which contains just the belt, tensioner and roller/s. If you engine has the water option it makes sense in every way to purchase the full kit. Who wants to fit belt etc for the water pump to fail and then damage the new belt and lead to engine engine damage, at best if the pump leaks you'll be paying for the job to done again. So now in general we know we want a full cam belt kit, which one? Ive read so many blogs that this make or that make is the best but how people really know what they are buying??? You don't, lets look at GATES, one of the best but are all part in that kit made by GATES?? No of course not. They will get other manufactures rollers etc. BUT they will all be to the same high quality!! Only today Ive open a Gates box with DayCo tensioner inside and if you purchase INA kit which is made by a bearing company you get their bearings but what belt?? When you purchase any kit you get a fruit salad of parts, and if any fail in use its costly. Volvo timing belts at one time even though they had Volvo on them came from GATES.  So in a nut shell my advise is this: Any quality manufacture will be good to go in general, on certain makes and certain engines (mostly high performance) one manufactures kit seem to suit that bit better. So a GATES, INA, DAYCO, Contitech etc will do. Any good quality brand will do just fine. And dont panic if some parts say made in China, China like anywhere can make high quality items and they are made to the spec ordered!!!! Order cheap you get cheap order top notch you get that. (But I am bias for German made items ) but dont tell anyone. Don't let others peoples bias influence you. Plus the main factor in any job is doing it right, get that wrong and no matter what manufacture you use the parts will fail, period. I'd rather have a cheap kit fitted well than the most expensive fitted poorly. Oh that reminds  me, listen to this one. At one main dealer a customer brought his car for a cam belt, the mechanic and I say that loosely fitted it wrong and cracked the engine over!!! Result bent valves and the service manger told the customer that the belt had snapped when the car was driven in!!!! I kid you not. Oh main dealer kits are not made by the main dealer, how could they be??? But if you feel better paying £200 more go for it. Id fit a GATES or any of the above to any standard engine in the world. If the people that fit the stuff dont purchase items from the main dealer, why should you and watch out for a dealer telling you you've paid for a main dealer part what you've had a really cheap and nasty one fitted and cheap and nasty kits are out there, You pays your money etc. 

You would be much better breaking that down in paragraphs.  No one is going to read all that.

400ixl

Barkin said:

In other words... 

Get it done when it should be done. 
Do the water pump at the same time. 
Use good quality parts, as most of the cost is labour. 

I think that covers it. 

Essentially for most people. If you are getting a garage to do it then you don't really need to know any more.

If someone is competent to tackle it themselves then they will likely be aware of the rest anyway.

Of course, if you have a Ford with a wet belt engine then do it very very early

And if you have a timing chain instead of a belt then similar applies except usually the change intervals are longer (or even for the life of the engine).

cymruchris

ombos said:

This will be a long one but worth reading.

It could be if you introduced paragraphs. That huge block of text is way too hard to read. From the few words I managed to skim, you're asking about quality of parts - with timing belts, always get a reputable brand, and ensure it's fitted well within the service schedule and not left to the last minute. If anything else needs changing at the same time - tensioners - water pumps - get them done. Yes there'll still be failures for those that have done everything right, but they'll be far fewer as a percentage than those that have bought a cheap belt and left it to the last minute.

oldagetraveller1

"And if you have a timing chain instead of a belt then similar applies except usually the change intervals are longer (or even for the life of the engine)."

And very important, to prolong a timing chain's life, change the engine oil and filter at the manufacturers' recommended intervals, and with the correct specification oil.

ombos

400ixl said:

Barkin said:

In other words... 

Get it done when it should be done. 
Do the water pump at the same time. 
Use good quality parts, as most of the cost is labour. 

I think that covers it. 

Essentially for most people. If you are getting a garage to do it then you don't really need to know any more.

If someone is competent to tackle it themselves then they will likely be aware of the rest anyway.

Of course, if you have a Ford with a wet belt engine then do it very very early

And if you have a timing chain instead of a belt then similar applies except usually the change intervals are longer (or even for the life of the engine).

Yes in a nut shell but justified the same. BUT you missed my main point. This is: why purchase a so called genuine one when there is no such item and then pay in some cases £200 more? Apart from maybe the warranty which we all know they will riddle out of.   Also even if you have it done at a garage, ask what make they are fitting. If customers just go on-line at lets say Parts In Motion ( there are many other companies :0) put in their Reg number and then they can see what price the kits are. Its all about not being ripped off and thats the purpose of this site. I've seen too may people ripped off. 

Ganga

motorguy said:

ombos said:

Hi all, this topic keeps popping up again and again across the net. Value for money vs Quality or is it. This will be a long one but worth reading. I was in the motor trade for years, Volvo, Renault and Vauxhall Tech, MOT QC and last off teaching MV at the local Collage. So its time to change your cambelt (refer to manufactures specs and not hear say). Many are 4 years 40,000 and many a lot longer. First question should I put off having my cambelt changed?? Depends on many factors but lets take the sensible route, NO, ok for a few months longer or a few 1000s miles but in general go for a change sooner rather than later. I've seen too many peoples face when they hear their engine requires £1000s of work due to a snapped belt. I've yet to see one snap early unless there's been another fault. So back to the topic which kit should I purchase and why?? What is a 'Kit' A Cam belt kit will have (normally and this varies)  the cam belt, water pump, idler roller/s belt tensioner, gaskets. You can also buy a kit which contains just the belt, tensioner and roller/s. If you engine has the water option it makes sense in every way to purchase the full kit. Who wants to fit belt etc for the water pump to fail and then damage the new belt and lead to engine engine damage, at best if the pump leaks you'll be paying for the job to done again. So now in general we know we want a full cam belt kit, which one? Ive read so many blogs that this make or that make is the best but how people really know what they are buying??? You don't, lets look at GATES, one of the best but are all part in that kit made by GATES?? No of course not. They will get other manufactures rollers etc. BUT they will all be to the same high quality!! Only today Ive open a Gates box with DayCo tensioner inside and if you purchase INA kit which is made by a bearing company you get their bearings but what belt?? When you purchase any kit you get a fruit salad of parts, and if any fail in use its costly. Volvo timing belts at one time even though they had Volvo on them came from GATES.  So in a nut shell my advise is this: Any quality manufacture will be good to go in general, on certain makes and certain engines (mostly high performance) one manufactures kit seem to suit that bit better. So a GATES, INA, DAYCO, Contitech etc will do. Any good quality brand will do just fine. And dont panic if some parts say made in China, China like anywhere can make high quality items and they are made to the spec ordered!!!! Order cheap you get cheap order top notch you get that. (But I am bias for German made items ) but dont tell anyone. Don't let others peoples bias influence you. Plus the main factor in any job is doing it right, get that wrong and no matter what manufacture you use the parts will fail, period. I'd rather have a cheap kit fitted well than the most expensive fitted poorly. Oh that reminds  me, listen to this one. At one main dealer a customer brought his car for a cam belt, the mechanic and I say that loosely fitted it wrong and cracked the engine over!!! Result bent valves and the service manger told the customer that the belt had snapped when the car was driven in!!!! I kid you not. Oh main dealer kits are not made by the main dealer, how could they be??? But if you feel better paying £200 more go for it. Id fit a GATES or any of the above to any standard engine in the world. If the people that fit the stuff dont purchase items from the main dealer, why should you and watch out for a dealer telling you you've paid for a main dealer part what you've had a really cheap and nasty one fitted and cheap and nasty kits are out there, You pays your money etc. 

You would be much better breaking that down in paragraphs.  No one is going to read all that.

Actually i did and agree it would have been better broken down but still found it interesting.

motorguy

oldagetraveller1 said:

And very important, to prolong a timing chain's life, change the engine oil and filter at the manufacturers' recommended intervals, and with the correct specification oil.

in the case of BMWs with 18-20K service intervals, i'd strongly recommend oil and filter every 9K, and check the oil level every two weeks and keep it topped up to the max.

The 2.0 litre diesels in particular are prone to using oil, which once it gets low can mean the chain isnt getting proper lubrication.  

Ibrahim5

I always wonder about liability for snapped belts. The last kit I bought was £35. Maybe the manufacturer got £20. If the parts cost £10 they might make £10 profit per kit. If they sold 1000 belts they would make £10k. If they all snapped and people worked out there was a dodgy batch and they claimed £5k per car that would be £5M. Is there any chance of that happening in these days of social media?