Car Insurance Claim with Foreign Driver

slipp_digby

I had a car crash in June of this year.

Basically I was travelling northbound on the M6 overtaking a truck which was in the inside lane. As I passed by the lorry cab he pulled out without warning clipping the rear passenger side of my car. This caused me to spin on the wet road into his path and I was then hit by the truck fully on the passenger side, eventually pushing me into the crash barrier near the entrance to Keele Services.

Luckily I was able to walk away from the incident unharmed although my car which was only worth about £1200 was a total loss.

The truck driver gave his details to the Police (who I had called). The truck was an Italian Registered vehicle with a left hand drive cab, so it was immediately apparent I had been in his ‘blind spot’ when he changed lanes. There were no witnesses to the incident, as traffic continued to flow in the other lanes during and after the incident.

I submitted my insurance claim to CIS immediately and drew out the incident as accurately as I could do. Since this, my insurers have been dealing with the UK handling agents who are acting on behalf of the foreign insurers. About a month ago I received a letter from CIS stating that the other party was holding me entirely responsible for the incident and would not accept any liability.

Today I received a letter saying that the driver had returned to Italy and submitted a claim to his own insurers. He had also provided an ‘Agreed Statement of Facts Document’ and CIS have queried whether this was in fact signed by me at the roadside, or if the other driver had completed this later.

Does anyone know what an ‘Agreed Statement of Facts Document’ actually is?

My insurers have also advised that without any witnesses, and with two completely different versions of events they would like to settle 50/50. In fact they have told me to confirm if I signed the Statement of Facts Document so they can settle the claim on this basis.

As you can imagine, I have lost my no claims bonus had to buy a new car (along with all of the hassle it caused) and am quite ****ed off with the whole incident which was not my fault in any way, and could have ended up so much worse.

What options are available to me?

Should I accept that I have lost my no claims but be happy with my lucky escape, and just let my insurers settle on a 50/50 basis at the earliest opportunity?

Or should I push my insurance company to pursue this further? Is there any value in this, or am I just delaying the inevitable?

lisyloo

I am not an expert in insurance but whilst insurers want to settle for as least cost as possible (which usually means staying out of court) you have to consider how you would fare if you were fighting this on your own in court.
The biggest problem you face is that there are no independent witness and it's your word against his. This is a huge obstacle and I think you'd find it difficult to win the case simply because of lack of proof (I'm assuming there is no compelling evidence in the police report).

Did the police investigate?
What did they decide?
To be honest if no-one is killed and there is no obvious dangerous driving then I think they do very little.

Did no-one stop who saw the accident?
From what you said I would have thought you would have stopped the traffic.
I presume they didn't.

I appreicate that you were hurt on this occassion and often people are shocked but getting independent witness is very important because it's what you can prove that counts.

My own opinion is that you'd be better off accepting 50/50 and then moving on and try not to get too wound up about it - s**t happens.
But as I said I'm not an expert so you might want to get some more opinions.

mattymoo

The Agreed Statement of Facts document is a multi-lingual document that you are normally given when travelling abroad alongside your Green Card.

Down the left hand side are the English description of various accident types (roundabout, hit in rear etc) and on the right are the same descriptions in the language of the country you are visiting. The driver should have had an English / Italian form.

There are boxes down the middle for you each to tick the description that best suits the circumstances. Hopefully they should tally up. Do you remember signing this type of form?

I suspect the lorry driver has told his insurers that you drove into the side of him. A truthfull enough statement until you explain that he was changing lanes at the time.

missile

Most EU countries have a multi part form which is filled in and signed by both parties as an agreed statement of facts - it is really quite a good system.

The lorry driver will have completed this form, as it will be a requirement of his insurance. I would suggest you ask for a copy and if he has forged your side it could be used to show his dishonesty.

Nevertheless, I would suggest it will prove very difficult to pursue a claim and knock for knock is the likely outcome.

Fortunately you were not injured.

Iom-rf

What was the reason for the lorry to change lanes though?, because at the moment you sound at fault, the lorry obviously pulled out for a reason?

Keeping_Positive

So hows that the OPs fault? Lorry shouldnt change lanes if not enough space.

slipp_digby

The police were very busy on the day of the incident and once they had reversed my car off the motorway and established that I wasn't hurt they lost interest. They didn't investigate or breathalise me or I believe the other driver. Due to the way that the accident happended it was impossible to get any witnesses, I basically stopped part way in the inside lane the wrong way round, so getting out of the car and onto the embankment was a bit of a priority! Also, because the lorry made me spin into his (inside) lane the other lanes of trafic remaining moving.

Mattymoo/missle - thanks for this exaplanation. And no, I didnt sign any documents at the roadside. I can prove this because the driver was spoken to by the police only as he was waiting in Keele services while I was still a few hundred yards further back on the embankment. I never had face to face contact with he driver (I though it wouldnt be a good idea as I was a tad angry).

I did not speak with the driver, the police did, and they had trouble communicating with him as his english was not very fluent.

Iom-rf - are you attempting to be funny? or just being a WUM? The lorry moved into my lane (middle) and hit the rear quarter on the passenger side which caused me to spin. I was doing a constant speed so he either misjudged the distance or failed to see me at all. At the point of contact I would expect that the front of my car would have been visible even to a left hand drive.

There was no warning and this happened at 65mph. You should try it yourself some time - (I would recommend wearing some very thick and absorbent underpants if you do). If the driver pulled out for a reason, why has he alleged that I ran into him and am wholy responsible? Liability would still reside with him would it not?

There was no reason for the lorry to change lanes I can think of, except that the lorry driver may have wanted to enter the middle lane in plenty of time before passing Keele services where you would expect slow moving traffic to be joining the M6.

I think I will request a copy of the information my insurers have recieved as it seems someone is telling a few porkies.

Is it possible the Police may have filled the form in on my behalf?

chilli_dog

Hey Slipp,

Sympethise with you totally.

I do a lot of motorway driving in my car and whenever i see a foreign truck plate I make sure i am not anywere near him. Have even seen one of these morons use the fast lane at night (in an articulated lorry).

Insurance compaines 'whimp out' at the slighest accident when there is no witness, it obviously saves them money.

Good luck with it.

Martin

V_tricky

Hi,

This is the English version of the form

http://www.french-insurance.com/docs/accident%20damage%20form.pdf

If it's one persons word against another, there is no independent witness evidence to support either version of events, - how do you think that it's possible to settle it any other way than 50/50? What actual evidence is there available that would persuade an independant party (ie a judge) that your version of the accident circumstances on the balance of probabilities is the correct version.

The police are unlikely to have filled in the Agreed Statement of Facts form - as you can see, it needs to be signed by Both drivers.

The police wouldn't have done a report - as no one was injured, and so it would be very difficult to prove that you did or didn't complete that Statement

One other thing that you might get thrown at you is Section 221 of the Highway Code - clearly this doesn't at all negate the lorry drivers responsibility to other road users.

Of course get a copy of the Statement from your insurer - for your own peace of mind if nothing else - how can you make a decision on how to procede (or concede) unless you have all the evidence to hand?, but IMHO, you're probably right in that if you do try to dig your heels in, you may well be simply delaying the inevitable.

You may need to just chalk this down to experience and invest in some teflon coated/kevlar undies, and thank your lucky stars that this didn't go as wrong as it plainly could have.

lisyloo

Liability would still reside with him would it not?

Assuming what you have said is the truth (and I've no doubt it is) then yes he would be liable.

However looking at it objectively if two people present a judge with two entirely different stories then how on earth can they tell which one is telling the truth?

The problem is the lack of evidence.
It's what you can prove that counts and unfortuntely the only proof you have is where the vehicles ended up but not how they got there.

Now one option is to go to court and try to find inconsistencies in the other side's story. However this is risky and costly.
If you lose then you could well have to pay the other sides legal costs.
Let's say it might be £20K total and 50/50 chance.
That's not a risk most people would take and the insurance company don't want to take that risk.

I have every sympathy with you but if I was a judge then why should I believe you rather than him?

achtunglady

Useful advice when driving next to a left hooker (left hand drive truck/lorry)

1) Make use of the road space, don't just sit in their blind spot at 65mph IN THE MIDDLE LANE, your car is capable of doing 70mph which is the speed limit in all lanes for cars, use the outside lane if necessary

2) Make a point of getting into a left hand drive truck and look in the mirrors to see exactly what you can or cannot see, and how large the blind spots are, remember they have no rear view mirrors

3) Anticipation helps too, don't just drive obliviously and assume that hes going to stay in his lane, expect the unexpected.

This isn't just happening with left hand drive lorries, some numpties drive up the inside of a right hand drive lorry to get where they're going so they can be 2 mph faster than the truck when its turning left and end up getting squashed in the blindspot.

"IF YOU CANNOT SEE BOTH THEIR WING MIRRORS THEY CANNOT SEE YOU"

Take a look at this film and see if it makes sense

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7100000/newsid_7105200/7105236.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=6&nol_storyid=7105236