Octopus Agile vs Tracker

Annemos

I love analysing how things work with numbers and logic. So, I can normally cope with things like tariff comparisons and even enjoy it! Often I won't give up, until I have worked it out. (It is 2 am now!!) 

But you might like to take a look at the post I just logged a few minutes ago. It's about my friends kWh gas cost exceeding the price guarantee on gas. (As far as I can make out.)

I hope it is not a really daft question that I have asked!! 


The thing that occurs to me, is how are all these companies and their billing systems, able to even cope with all these different tariffs and saver schemes? 

Will the whole lot just "blow up", because it will all get into such a mess??

Indeed, I too have a feeling that everything is doomed these days. All the systems are potentially getting "too clever" for their own good. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6456973/bill-kwh-price-is-exceeding-the-price-guarantee-for-gas-in-april-2023-is-that-allowed#latest

[Deleted User]

The thing that occurs to me, is how are all these companies and their billing systems, able to even cope with all these different tariffs and saver schemes? 

Will the whole lot just "blow up", because it will all get into such a mess??

No. Octopus has produced a billing platform for its time-of-use tariffs that ignores meter index readings and uses 30 minute usage data for billing purposes. Octopus has done this now for over 3 years. Bills often run to over 30 pages. It is also possible via API access to one’s energy account to get usage and costs on a daily basis.

Other international and UK suppliers are now leasing the Kraken Technologies billing platform; eg; Good Energy; E.oN Next and EDF.



The problem is we have generations of people who have taken no interest in their energy bills other than looking at this site to see what ML suggests next.

With time-of-use tariffs, the days of tariff comparisons based on kWh/year are numbered. Future comparisons will be based on 12 months’ worth of profiled data pulled from a consumer’s smart meter. The comparison tool will then overlay the profiled usage to determine the cheapest time-of-use conventional* tariff for the given profile. Tariffs such as Agile and Tracker will never be offered for comparison (‘past performance is no guarantee of future performance’).

*Conventional - for example, a fixed term tariff comprising of 3 periods each working day with 3 unit prices, and a weekend tariff comprising of 2 periods each day with 2 unit prices.

scobie

It’s unfair to ask if Octopus is failing in its duty of care as one poster has posited. 

The caveats and details are very clearly communicated. Not just in the terms and conditions but also in the marketing blurb. 

The problem is people can’t be bothered to read for themselves or are too lazy to process what they’re reading. 

If I see another post starting ‘oh dear, I’m a novice at this etc etc’ I’ll scream.  

No you’re not a novice. You’re just lazy. 

morgmonster

I’m in a similar boat though only been on Agile for a month or so (no EV or solar panels etc). It’s kind of frustrating that they will backdate tracker to 1st of July when this weekend has plunge pricing on Agile!

I am using the app Octo-Aid to compare agile and tracker (only on iOS unfortunately). At the moment tracker is coming out £5-10 a month cheaper but I’m torn about what might happen from mid-sept onwards when we have to start using the tumble dryer again (it’s probably used for 1.5 hours 5x a week or so). Last winter we were on a go faster tariff so it was put on only during our cheap hours. There is someone home almost every day so load shifting the dryer use to the middle of the day will be straightforward. But with 3 kids, we can’t shift much else. 

Does anyone know of an app or site where I can look at our daily hour-to-hour usage averaged over a month or whatever to try and work out whether the savings made being able to shift the tumble drying will offset having higher rates 4-9pm? As well as octo-Aid I use Hugo which is great to flick through each days kWh usage to get an idea of the peaks and troughs but would be brilliant to have it averaged out.

Backlit5584

scobie said:

Both this site and Facebook have been full today of these questions.  Which makes me wonder: why on Earth are people signing up to Tracker if they don’t know the basics of how it works?

I'm not sure why you've chosen my question to raise this point. I originally thought I would prefer Tracker as it was more straightforward to monitor but wasn't able to sign up at that time and determined that Agile was also almost guaranteed to save money in the short term at least so went onto that one.

I'm uncertain mainly because Agile has worked for me better than I expected. I thought it would be annoying to check it but find that actually it doesn't disrupt my life at all. Moving timing for energy hungry appliances like the tumble dryer into cheap slots and doing everything else as normal has saved me a stack and I don't see any reason that wouldn't continue to be the case. If the energy market changes, I can come off the tariff...

I signed up to Tracker as an expression of interest and, now it's available am doing some due diligence. I'm pretty happy that either Agile or Tracker would be ok for my usage and, given that Octopus are limiting ability to move on/off them, I want to give some thought to if there's a reason one is likely to be better than the other. I know there's a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people on the forum that know a lot of the specific details around how things work. I've learned a lot of helpful things and for example earned a load of Octopoints over the winter I wouldn't otherwise have had because someone here had raked through the calculation criteria.

QrizB

Backlit5584 said:

scobie said:

Both this site and Facebook have been full today of these questions.  Which makes me wonder: why on Earth are people signing up to Tracker if they don’t know the basics of how it works?

I'm not sure why you've chosen my question to raise this point.

I think we've digressed from your question. Sorry about that. Thread drift has been a feature of forum discussions for as long as I've been on them.

Backlit5584 said:

I'm uncertain mainly because Agile has worked for me better than I expected. I thought it would be annoying to check it but find that actually it doesn't disrupt my life at all. Moving timing for energy hungry appliances like the tumble dryer into cheap slots and doing everything else as normal has saved me a stack and I don't see any reason that wouldn't continue to be the case.

Because Agile has the (artificial) evening hump, the unweighted average price on Agile is usually higher than the flat-rate of Tracker. However, if you have found yourself able to load shift into Agile's cheaper periods without too much inconvenience, it suggests you might want to stay on Agile - at least until autumn or winter.

Backlit5584

morgmonster said:

I’m in a similar boat though only been on Agile for a month or so (no EV or solar panels etc). It’s kind of frustrating that they will backdate tracker to 1st of July when this weekend has plunge pricing on Agile!

I am using the app Octo-Aid to compare agile and tracker (only on iOS unfortunately). At the moment tracker is coming out £5-10 a month cheaper but I’m torn about what might happen from mid-sept onwards when we have to start using the tumble dryer again (it’s probably used for 1.5 hours 5x a week or so). Last winter we were on a go faster tariff so it was put on only during our cheap hours. There is someone home almost every day so load shifting the dryer use to the middle of the day will be straightforward. But with 3 kids, we can’t shift much else. 

Ah this is fantastic - I hadn't tried that one thanks. It's run the comparison on my usage data. Difference in the past 30 days is a couple of quid to benefit of Tracker so good to know everything has been broadly equivalent. I could have done a bit more to move usage but also I don't think it's that realistic I would do that every day of the year. 

I'll make up some ground today and yesterday I'm sure. I guess it means it's probably not a particularly big deal for me which is selected.

Backlit5584

QrizB said:

I think we've digressed from your question. Sorry about that. Thread drift has been a feature of forum discussions for as long as I've been on them.

Because Agile has the (artificial) evening hump, the unweighted average price on Agile is usually higher than the flat-rate of Tracker. However, if you have found yourself able to load shift into Agile's cheaper periods without too much inconvenience, it suggests you might want to stay on Agile - at least until autumn or winter.

No no, random conversation is part of a forum totally agreed. I felt that first comment was aimed at me specifically as it was one of the first responses and it's really not a fair assumption. I tried to be specifically clear in my OP that I'm prepared to be accountable for my own decisions.

I don't have significant need for energy in that period on a regular basis. However, having found an app that has let me analyse and compare all the Octopus data from my meter (only a few months unfortunately) and it's very even between them. Given that, it's probably easier to just go on Tracker and suit myself what I use when, I might well just do that. What will be best over the summer probably depends how windy it is - something I have no insight into.

mmmmikey

Whoops - apologies for my part in taking your post in the wrong direction @Backlit5584 - any comments were general and nothing personal

Altarf

mmmmikey said:

I can see Octopus getting their fingers burnt with this. I'm starting to wonder if they are failing in their duty of care by not spelling out the risks more forcefully. There seems to be a bandwagon that's gathering pace and a lot of people are jumping on it with very little understanding of what they are signing up to. It's not that I think that Tracker and Agile are bad tariffs or unduly risky if you know what you're doing - in fact I think they can be an excellent option in some situations. My concern is that it's clear from some of the questions that are being asked that some of the folks don't know what they are signing up for.

I did wonder if the reason Octopus introduced the queue for Tracker and the ‘50 onboard a day’ rule (which was obviously absurd as it would have taken years to onboard everyone one the queue ) was to minimise the ‘blowback’ if things went horribly wrong.

Now with prices a ‘little’ more stable they have possibly assessed that the risk of Tracker prices soaring to multiple times the cap level have receded (that isn’t to say that they couldn’t go past it, just not up to the £1/kWh maximum) and thus complaints are less likely.

But as for Agile - sheesh, I can see those who don’t understand the tariff getting burnt with that and then Octopus needing to defend themselves in the media.