Help please - mislead by seller? Land registry issue

user1977

ohgoodgrief said:

user1977 said:

Some photos would help, as I'm not sure what the "driveway" you mention in your OP is (or where the front or side of the property are). A shared access road to multiple people's garages doesn't usually look like a "driveway".

A garage is "off-road parking" and a double garage is arguably "ample" (would be to me anyway!).

In practice, other people can't park in front of your garages, so do they just mean that in practice you can park there and not obstruct the neighbours?

It was listed on the property information form as a driveway.

Does it say you're allowed to park on the driveway?

Looks like parking on the road is feasible anyway (albeit the locals seem to prefer mounting the pavement...) so I doubt it makes all that much difference to the price.

Devongardener

We had a very similar problem with a property we’d offered on and started the conveyancing process.   

The house was one of only 2 at the end of an L shaped long driveway.   The long part had a wide grassed area to one side.  We asked the agent how much of the driveway was owned by each of the 2 properties and he said, and clearly indicated, that we would own half each across the drive and half the grassed area, saying “but that will all be confirmed during conveyancing”.  

The owner stated they didn’t know where the boundaries were in the property info pack, so I downloaded the LR plans for both houses, from which it was clear that our property owned none of the driveway.    Our solicitor then discovered that the middle section belonged to the other house and the parts either end were owned by someone else entirely, who were apparently untraceable!     We would have had ROW only to access our house, but would be required to contribute 50% of the manintenace and repair costs,  we would be able to park only outside the garage and have no right to anything else.     At this point we withdrew, after some off the record discussion with our solicitor.      

The estate agent kept calling us to change our minds and became very unpleasant suggesting we were making a fuss about nothing.   He said we could use the rest of the 50% we thought we were getting, and then after 10 years apply for adverse possession if the owner didn’t object. We declined, we might not have 10 years and don’t want the stress of this.     I was so angry that the agent either didn’t bother to discover who owned what or glossed over it to get the sale, the house had been on the market for over 8 months, so I wonder if other buyers had the same problem.   In the case of the OP, I would definitely walk away.

[Deleted User]

Whoever buys this is going to discover this issue if their solicitors are half way competent, so either they give you a hefty reduction in price, or they re-list without parking, or they try to blag someone else.

Giving you a discount is likely to be the best option, and I'd push for that.

loubel

ohgoodgrief said:

To further complicate things the people whom own the garage/gym are not the people behind (no 3) they are next door (no 1). Number 3 own the shared driveway land, but the title says they have no access for parking (they have their own driveway outside their property). 

Oh, sorry I missed that.

So house behind owns "your" access but has no rights to use it themselves (very odd in itself!) and the house nextdoor has a right of access over it to access their garage which they have converted into a gym. So in practice as long as next door can get to and into their gym they shouldn't be bothered by you parking there and no obvious reason for house behind to mind either, although technically you shouldn't be doing so.

But you don't know how it would play out as this hasn't been tested as you say current owners don't own a car. Plus nextdoor could decide to reinstate as a garage at any point or either house be sold and new owner feel differently about it.

Personally I wouldn't want to buy it knowing that I neither own not have any rights to park on the driveway.  

ETA and whatever the agents say, a house without a driveway is clearly going to be worth less than an identical house with one.

UnderOffer

Comparing photos to plans, shouldn’t the extension (with green square) be shown on plan? Are the two red arrows pointing to the garages the ones that accompany house? But right hand is a double.

loubel

UnderOffer said:

Comparing photos to plans, shouldn’t the extension (with green square) be shown on plan? 

Land Registry plans are based on Ordnance Survey maps at the time of registration so if the house has been subsequently extended then this won't be shown on the plans.

UnderOffer

loubel said:

UnderOffer said:

Comparing photos to plans, shouldn’t the extension (with green square) be shown on plan? 

Land Registry plans are based on Ordnance Survey maps at the time of registration so if the house has been subsequently extended then this won't be shown on the plans.

Oh thank you, that makes sense. 

Bonniepurple

ohgoodgrief said:

user1977 said:

Some photos would help, as I'm not sure what the "driveway" you mention in your OP is (or where the front or side of the property are). A shared access road to multiple people's garages doesn't usually look like a "driveway".

A garage is "off-road parking" and a double garage is arguably "ample" (would be to me anyway!).

In practice, other people can't park in front of your garages, so do they just mean that in practice you can park there and not obstruct the neighbours?

It was listed on the property information form as a driveway.

Looking at that set up, I’d run for the hills.  It *might* be okay for you, but for visitors?  How about if the neighbours change?  Even though the vendors apparently don’t drive, they must have known about the parking issues- unless all their visitors come on foot?

user1977

Bonniepurple said:

ohgoodgrief said:

user1977 said:

Some photos would help, as I'm not sure what the "driveway" you mention in your OP is (or where the front or side of the property are). A shared access road to multiple people's garages doesn't usually look like a "driveway".

A garage is "off-road parking" and a double garage is arguably "ample" (would be to me anyway!).

In practice, other people can't park in front of your garages, so do they just mean that in practice you can park there and not obstruct the neighbours?

It was listed on the property information form as a driveway.

Looking at that set up, I’d run for the hills.  It *might* be okay for you, but for visitors?

Visitors (assuming they come by car!) can park on the road. As can the residents.

AlexMac

I’m not sure I’ve followed all the ins and out about ownership of and RoW over the various bits of Drive, Garages and Gums, but the advice your solicitor gave you in your original post seems hard to ignore (in effect- you’re buying something less than you originally thought; so it’s worth less)

if it bothers you, how will it seem to a future buyer when you eventually sell?  

In two cases in the past; once regarding a place we were buying, the other a close mate’s purchase, there were minor inconsistencies in the red-lines. Our solicitor demanded rectification through a deed, prior to exchange, at the seller’s expense. 

Our mate was even more hard nosed; on discovering the inconsistency, he demanded, and got, a big price cut, out of all proportion to the tiny bit of disputed boundary. 

And when we bought our next place, our (very picky) solicitor insisted we inspect and confirm whether the plot and all boundaries on the red line were accurate in practice. 

That kind of 4rs3y buyer (like us and our brief) could be a problem for you ten years down the line?