Advise following on from level 3 survey

stuart45

A DPC on a 67-75 built property won't need renewal.

FreeBear

Adam1303 said:
- One wall has a moisture reading of 800 making it completely saturated and probable of no DPC
- Damp in walls, with average readings in mid-high 200's

The readings are totally meaningless and lack any units - Is that grammes of water per cubic metre of wall, or the number of ants climbing up an elephant's backside... He probably used a protimeter, stuck the pins in at random points in the walls and just picked a number.

Damp meters (the ones with sharp pins on the end) only give useful readings when used on untreated wood. On anything else, no end of contaminants will throw the readings off. Salts, paints, different plasters, and so on. In the right hands, and with a modicum of understanding, they can be used to identify sections of walls that might need further investigation. The correct way to guage and quantify damp in a wall is with a carbide meter. But this involves drilling a hole in the wall to collect a sample for testing. Your average surveyor will not have the equipment, nor is the home owner likely to grant permission for destructive testing.

That aside, this property sounds as if it may have a few structural problems (the porch being one). Replacing lintels could be expensive, as would rebuilding the porch. On the bright side, there will be a DPC (it was pretty standard in 1965), and these do not just fail. Depending on the material used, you might get one or two cracks, but this would only produce thin slivers of damp at the base of a wall. Elevated ground levels outside breaching the DPC is by far the most common source of penetrating damp. Often, easily fixed with a days work and a decent shovel.

Adam1303

FreeBear said:

Adam1303 said:
- One wall has a moisture reading of 800 making it completely saturated and probable of no DPC
- Damp in walls, with average readings in mid-high 200's

The readings are totally meaningless and lack any units - Is that grammes of water per cubic metre of wall, or the number of ants climbing up an elephant's backside... He probably used a protimeter, stuck the pins in at random points in the walls and just picked a number.

Damp meters (the ones with sharp pins on the end) only give useful readings when used on untreated wood. On anything else, no end of contaminants will throw the readings off. Salts, paints, different plasters, and so on. In the right hands, and with a modicum of understanding, they can be used to identify sections of walls that might need further investigation. The correct way to guage and quantify damp in a wall is with a carbide meter. But this involves drilling a hole in the wall to collect a sample for testing. Your average surveyor will not have the equipment, nor is the home owner likely to grant permission for destructive testing.

That aside, this property sounds as if it may have a few structural problems (the porch being one). Replacing lintels could be expensive, as would rebuilding the porch. On the bright side, there will be a DPC (it was pretty standard in 1965), and these do not just fail. Depending on the material used, you might get one or two cracks, but this would only produce thin slivers of damp at the base of a wall. Elevated ground levels outside breaching the DPC is by far the most common source of penetrating damp. Often, easily fixed with a days work and a decent shovel.

I believe it's relatice moisture and based on the pictures, it wasn't the pins which were used. 
MMS3 was the device in use and based on reviews online and videos observed, it seems fairly accurate but I too question how accurate exactly. 

Based on the readings, the damp is spread among all walls downstairs but doesn't spread to upstairs.  

The lintels and cavity wall ties are what have me concerned primarily. 
The wall ties are at the end of their life expectancy and concerns raise when the estimated repairs for 10 windows, 2 doors and cavity wall ties is coming close to £7000 in repairs. 

I'm going to send the report to my solicitor and book an appointment with the estate agent to reveal findings. 
Hopefully we can come to some form of agreement which mitigates the financial impact on myself, yet remains within reason for the seller. 

ReadingTim

Adam1303 said:

I'm going to send the report to my solicitor and book an appointment with the estate agent to reveal findings. 
Hopefully we can come to some form of agreement which mitigates the financial impact on myself, yet remains within reason for the seller. 

And if you don't...?  Ultimately all the EA / seller is interested is the line where the surveyor concludes whether the property is worth the amount you've offered, and if it is, then you don't have too much leverage. Furthermore, it seems from what you've said that most of the problems identified seem relatively visible, therefore the seller's response is likely to be that your offer should have taken into account the cracks in the wall or the wonky porch, and they're not going to knock off any money for it now.... So if they do say that, are you going to walk away from the place?  

FreeBear

Adam1303 said: I believe it's relatice moisture and based on the pictures, it wasn't the pins which were used. 
MMS3 was the device in use and based on reviews online and videos observed, it seems fairly accurate but I too question how accurate exactly.

Ah... One of those devices that uses an RF signal to detect moisture - It has its uses in a lab where temperature can be tightly controlled and properly calibrated for the material under test. Out in the real world where temperatures are variable, and one is dealing with an unknown mix of materials, of limited value. Probably best used to take relative readings across a wall, but certainly not good enough for an absolute definitive reading.

thearchitect

I tend to agree with FreeBear's previous two posts.

Corrosion to (presumably steel) lintels and anticipated failure of cavity wall ties would both also give me cause for concern.

Adam1303

ReadingTim said:

Adam1303 said:

I'm going to send the report to my solicitor and book an appointment with the estate agent to reveal findings. 
Hopefully we can come to some form of agreement which mitigates the financial impact on myself, yet remains within reason for the seller. 

And if you don't...?  Ultimately all the EA / seller is interested is the line where the surveyor concludes whether the property is worth the amount you've offered, and if it is, then you don't have too much leverage. Furthermore, it seems from what you've said that most of the problems identified seem relatively visible, therefore the seller's response is likely to be that your offer should have taken into account the cracks in the wall or the wonky porch, and they're not going to knock off any money for it now.... So if they do say that, are you going to walk away from the place?  

The surveyor has advised renegotiation of price on the basis complete failure would be catastrophic. 

I would absolutely be happy to walk away. There's a property 2 doors down selling £5k cheaper than the asking price which I offered them, before these revelations. 
If there isn't room to accommodate this, they'll be in the position the other property is in. To emphasise, the other property has had offers undercutting the price, with it being £5k cheaper. 
With awareness of structural issues, who will pay £5k more for a property containing structural defects when complete failure is definitive and will happen at some point in the future. 

No wiggle room and I absolutely walk away. 

FreeBear said:

Adam1303 said: I believe it's relatice moisture and based on the pictures, it wasn't the pins which were used. 
MMS3 was the device in use and based on reviews online and videos observed, it seems fairly accurate but I too question how accurate exactly.

Ah... One of those devices that uses an RF signal to detect moisture - It has its uses in a lab where temperature can be tightly controlled and properly calibrated for the material under test. Out in the real world where temperatures are variable, and one is dealing with an unknown mix of materials, of limited value. Probably best used to take relative readings across a wall, but certainly not good enough for an absolute definitive reading.

This is fair, I won't use it as a solidified basis behind the damp.
I also suppose the previously mentioned sealed vents and such could be contributing factors behind the damp inside of the walls, if any. 

thearchitect said:

I tend to agree with FreeBear's previous two posts.

Corrosion to (presumably steel) lintels and anticipated failure of cavity wall ties would both also give me cause for concern.

Absolutely, I'm highly concerned now and will definitely walk away in the event of no movement in price. 
Everything is getting more expensive, so I won't be onboarding a property which is going to fail at some point if there's no willingness to reflect the structural condition in the price.

LHW99

Its also possible mortar could have bridged the DPC at some time when an area of wall was poorly re-pointed - we had that problem on one house. Just needs carefully knocking / cleaning off.