Natwest 'blacklist' auto-decline

DullGreyGuy

NewUser1972 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Blacklist is more explicit... it's a list of banned customers/employees etc shared between companies @newuser1972 which is anti-competitive in nature and therefore illegal. A company is perfectly fine keep their own list of former customers/employees they want nothing to do with in the future.

matt1976 said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Finance houses use credit reference agencies to obtain information, this along with their own credit criteria is used to assess someone's suitability for lending. Judging by your comment, you would think there are dark arts at work.

They'll go beyond just external credit referencing and will have lists of people they dont want as customers... the person in the Credit Cards section that is under investigation for being abusive to staff may well be finding themselves on such a list.

A blacklist is typically however considered to be one shared by a group and goes beyond simply saying that ABC abuses call centre agents but an agreement that anyone on the list is blocked by everyone subscribing. 

There are some things fairly close to a blacklist, or a non-compete agreements, in certain very old circles which certainly wouldnt be allowed these days if it hadn't been going 200 years

A 'blacklist' needn't be shared. As I said its a colloquialism in this context. If you look it up in the dictionary it's simply a list of 'undesirables'. It doesn't need to be shared. It's just a list 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/blacklist

a list of people, countries, etc. who are considered by a particular authority or group to be unacceptable and who should be avoided and not trusted

Its in the definition... a bank isnt an "authority" and hence you'd need a group of banks and hence why its illegal. Not because one bank cannot decide it doesnt want people but because Natwest and Halifax cannot come to an ageement that they'll share a common list.

[Deleted User] said:

DullGreyGuy said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Blacklist is more explicit... it's a list of banned customers/employees etc shared between companies @newuser1972 which is anti-competitive in nature and therefore illegal. A company is perfectly fine keep their own list of former customers/employees they want nothing to do with in the future.

[Deleted User] said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Finance houses use credit reference agencies to obtain information, this along with their own credit criteria is used to assess someone's suitability for lending. Judging by your comment, you would think there are dark arts at work.

They'll go beyond just external credit referencing and will have lists of people they dont want as customers... the person in the Credit Cards section that is under investigation for being abusive to staff may well be finding themselves on such a list.

A blacklist is typically however considered to be one shared by a group and goes beyond simply saying that ABC abuses call centre agents but an agreement that anyone on the list is blocked by everyone subscribing. 

There are some things fairly close to a blacklist, or a non-compete agreements, in certain very old circles which certainly wouldnt be allowed these days if it hadn't been going 200 years

That's simply not true.

You quoted 4 paragraphs @[Deleted User] it'd help the conversation if you said which one wasnt true? I'll take a guess that it was the last one in which case have a read up on the International Group

[Deleted User]

DullGreyGuy said:

NewUser1972 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Blacklist is more explicit... it's a list of banned customers/employees etc shared between companies @newuser1972 which is anti-competitive in nature and therefore illegal. A company is perfectly fine keep their own list of former customers/employees they want nothing to do with in the future.

matt1976 said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Finance houses use credit reference agencies to obtain information, this along with their own credit criteria is used to assess someone's suitability for lending. Judging by your comment, you would think there are dark arts at work.

They'll go beyond just external credit referencing and will have lists of people they dont want as customers... the person in the Credit Cards section that is under investigation for being abusive to staff may well be finding themselves on such a list.

A blacklist is typically however considered to be one shared by a group and goes beyond simply saying that ABC abuses call centre agents but an agreement that anyone on the list is blocked by everyone subscribing. 

There are some things fairly close to a blacklist, or a non-compete agreements, in certain very old circles which certainly wouldnt be allowed these days if it hadn't been going 200 years

A 'blacklist' needn't be shared. As I said its a colloquialism in this context. If you look it up in the dictionary it's simply a list of 'undesirables'. It doesn't need to be shared. It's just a list 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/blacklist

a list of people, countries, etc. who are considered by a particular authority or group to be unacceptable and who should be avoided and not trusted

Its in the definition... a bank isnt an "authority" and hence you'd need a group of banks and hence why its illegal. Not because one bank cannot decide it doesnt want people but because Natwest and Halifax cannot come to an ageement that they'll share a common list.

[Deleted User] said:

DullGreyGuy said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Blacklist is more explicit... it's a list of banned customers/employees etc shared between companies @newuser1972 which is anti-competitive in nature and therefore illegal. A company is perfectly fine keep their own list of former customers/employees they want nothing to do with in the future.

[Deleted User] said:

NewUser1972 said:

Iansellers said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Blacklists in general are lists that companies share with their competitors, its the anti-competitive nature of blacklists that makes them illegal even if someone managed to get around the GDPR issues.

A company or group are perfectly entitled to have a list of customers they dont want to deal with as long as it isnt on the basis of protected characteristics (sexual orientation, race, religion etc).

I had a somewhat similar experience, had a joint account and loan with g/friend at the time. When we split removed her from the current account but was too much faff to deal with the loan which I was paying in full. A year or two later was told they were closing both, they wouldnt fully say way but said it was to do with the co-debtor on the loan. Wasnt all bad as they allowed a reduced payment to clear off the loan as full and final settlement.

Circa 3 years later opened a Black current account with them started using it, applied for the credit card and was declined. Queried why, was told the same thing, questioned why I had been able to open a current account with them and they said I shouldnt have been able to and so would be closing it.

Fast forward another 5 years and they approved a substantial mortgage which has now been running 5 years. 


Why are you so desperate to be their customer if they dont want you? 

No such thing as a "blacklist"

The term 'blacklist' is a colloquialism. If you honestly think that businesses, particularly financial institutions don't have records of people who they don't want to deal with which, if printed out would constitute 'a list' then you're very naive

Finance houses use credit reference agencies to obtain information, this along with their own credit criteria is used to assess someone's suitability for lending. Judging by your comment, you would think there are dark arts at work.

They'll go beyond just external credit referencing and will have lists of people they dont want as customers... the person in the Credit Cards section that is under investigation for being abusive to staff may well be finding themselves on such a list.

A blacklist is typically however considered to be one shared by a group and goes beyond simply saying that ABC abuses call centre agents but an agreement that anyone on the list is blocked by everyone subscribing. 

There are some things fairly close to a blacklist, or a non-compete agreements, in certain very old circles which certainly wouldnt be allowed these days if it hadn't been going 200 years

That's simply not true.

You quoted 4 paragraphs @[Deleted User] it'd help the conversation if you said which one wasnt true? I'll take a guess that it was the last one in which case have a read up on the International Group

A lot of assumptions there.

MrSilk

I had an account with them 6 years ago, tried to open another one beginning of last year and it declined, tried again end of last year declined again. I emailed them asking what was going on and they said I can't open an account with RBS/Natwest or any RBS group bank. Strange but not that bothered. 

Did a SAR and CIFAS and nothing showed up. Weird. 

sourcrates

Banks are in the business of making money, they may bleat on about other things, but they have shareholders to please, so the existence of any "blacklist" whereby those on it will never be deemed worthy of custom, ever again, seems counterproductive to say the least.

Especially so when you consider the average yearly default rate on credit agreements in the UK is almost 23%, that would make for an awfully long list.

CIFAS reports stay on file for 6 years, as do defaults, the reason being everyone is entitled to a second chance, the powers that be deem 6 years to be that timescale, yes some lenders keep internal records for slightly longer, but 6 years is the recognised length of time your incommunicado.

If you blacklisted every customer that ever defaulted on a credit agreement, you would soon limit your growth, creditors inbuild losses within their business plans, it`s a part of every business model, even bad debts make them money.

MrFrugalFever

I have had a strange scenario with Barclaycard (Barclays). Firstly, in September 2017 I ashamedly entered in to an IVA and Barclaycard were on the list for just over £11k. My debt was settled and sold on to Arrow Global Group or something similar almost immediately and as such my credit files show my previous Barclaycard account as settled in full in September 2017.

Fast forward to 2021 and I had managed to get myself in to a situation whereby I could settle the IVA providing creditors agreed at variation meeting and re-enter the world of financial services without the restrictions imposed.

Fast forward to October 2022 and I decided I would like to engage with Barclaycard again with their Avios Mastercard, having a very much renewed self-disciplined approach to finances I knew that should I be accepted I would never be in a situation like I was back in 2017 as I just will not ever let that happen again. I conducted a few eligibility checks throughout the month and pondered, I was actually quite shocked when they provisionally accepted me given my history with them. At the end of October 2022 I decided to finally take the plunge and thought well i'm well on my way to rebuilding my credit history with a few CC's (sub-prime) under my belt and paying all in full every month.

I was approved straight away with a £6,500 limit. Avios points here we come!

Moving on to May 2023, I receive an email from BC stating a document was ready to view in the app, so opened app went to docs and saw they had kindly let me know my limit was going from £6,500 to £800. I had moved in excess of £7k+ through BC by this point and never paid a penny in interest.

I phoned and queried the reason and explained that I felt it was incredibly insulting to have happened this way when surely it should have been the case of giving me that peanuts of a limit from the outset?

Anyway, didn't get anywhere as always and was told keep an eye on credit reports/check all 3 cra's, keep eye on credit limit increase request page blah blah usual stuff.

Then only a few days ago, I got that delightful email again....a document is ready for you. I bet it is! So checked, yep you guessed it, another insulting credit limit decrease. This time down to £550. At this point nearly £11k had gone through my BC account and again not a penny in interest paid.

So I decided to phone them up again and have a bit more of a chat with them as clearly this is a bit of a pain for me.

Ultimately, the outcome was that apparently due to TWO CONSECUTIVE missed payments reported to Barclays Bank by a CRA they have made the decision to reduce the credit limit. Nothing to do with IVA history, defaults or past account management that they made me aware of, the telephone banking assistant was very clear after putting me on hold for over 10 minutes reviewing my account that it was the missed payments that led to their decision.

So, naturally I wanted to investigate.....the only 2 missed payments I have ever had that I can find any evidence of whatsover is sat on my Experian report with BARCLAYCARD in 2012.

SO I guess in a roundabout way, there may not necessarily be a 'blacklist' but data isn't quite wiped out after 6 years as people would have you believe!