Refused Delivery - Royal Mail Claimed It was delivered

tightauldgit

And what's the extra stuff in May? I assumed that you had meant that RM were saying it's been delivered back to the seller. 

What's the signature they claim to have? Or is all that stuff just what RM is claiming is an error?

It's certainly worth trying a S75 but I suspect it would fail if RM are saying the item was delivered. 

It may be that small claims court would be necessary and hopefully you can persuade a judge that RM are incorrect. 

Chippyshell

tightauldgit said:

And what's the extra stuff in May? I assumed that you had meant that RM were saying it's been delivered back to the seller. 

What's the signature they claim to have? Or is all that stuff just what RM is claiming is an error?

It's certainly worth trying a S75 but I suspect it would fail if RM are saying the item was delivered. 

It may be that small claims court would be necessary and hopefully you can persuade a judge that RM are incorrect. 

Im guessing the extra stuff in the may is the movement, it didnt move for months and months. The signature is just a line pretty much, Ive started the complaint procedure with the bank so just waiting on the 8week lead time so i can complain to the financial ombudsman

tightauldgit

In the meantime I'd keep pushing with the retailer and point out that in law the fact their courier has lost their item is not a reason to deny you a refund since you refused delivery and therefore risk never passed to you. 

Chippyshell

tightauldgit said:

In the meantime I'd keep pushing with the retailer and point out that in law the fact their courier has lost their item is not a reason to deny you a refund since you refused delivery and therefore risk never passed to you. 

Do you know which parts of the CRA - I did have a quick look though but would be helpful if i could quote it

DullGreyGuy

It would be helpful for you to confirm exactly what RM is saying the official position of the parcel is... delivered to you, refused by you to be return to sender but unknown if that happened or delivered to the sender? Also confirm if you have that in writing from Royal Mail?

Also confused by your explanation that they had "just been launched"? The annual release of iPhones happens in september and the iPhone 14 came out in the UK on 16 September 2022 so an order in January was, in tech terms, a fairly long time after launch, a third of the way towards the iPhone 15

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Chippyshell said:

tightauldgit said:

In the meantime I'd keep pushing with the retailer and point out that in law the fact their courier has lost their item is not a reason to deny you a refund since you refused delivery and therefore risk never passed to you. 

Do you know which parts of the CRA - I did have a quick look though but would be helpful if i could quote it

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/29/enacted

(1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.

(3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—

(a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and

(b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.

(4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.

(5)Subsection (4) does not affect any liability of the carrier to the consumer in respect of the goods.

(6)See section 2(5) and (6) for the application of this section where goods are sold at public auction.

Chippyshell

DullGreyGuy said:

It would be helpful for you to confirm exactly what RM is saying the official position of the parcel is... delivered to you, refused by you to be return to sender but unknown if that happened or delivered to the sender? Also confirm if you have that in writing from Royal Mail?

Also confused by your explanation that they had "just been launched"? The annual release of iPhones happens in september and the iPhone 14 came out in the UK on 16 September 2022 so an order in January was, in tech terms, a fairly long time after launch, a third of the way towards the iPhone 15

"We are confident that the scans obtained post-delivery on 17/01/23 and of late were as a result of a barcode issue associated with a specific bag and actually had no bearing on the physical item itself;

"To provide more detail, sometimes if we experience an issue with scanning a barcode, our operational colleagues sometimes have to enter a tracking number manually which in this case was mis-typed causing incorrect tracking information to be attributed to this reference" - Hence it was scanned as 'refused - returned to sender' and now has a subsequent delivery scan."

This is from the retailer on behalf of RM as the retailer their customer i cant contact then directly and ask for information it. The reason for purchasing and refusing is irrelevant,  I dont keep up to date with technolnogy just had a marketing email and ussumed they either got them back in stock or they had just came out.

To be honest it was 6months ago soo yeh.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Chippyshell said:

DullGreyGuy said:

It would be helpful for you to confirm exactly what RM is saying the official position of the parcel is... delivered to you, refused by you to be return to sender but unknown if that happened or delivered to the sender? Also confirm if you have that in writing from Royal Mail?

Also confused by your explanation that they had "just been launched"? The annual release of iPhones happens in september and the iPhone 14 came out in the UK on 16 September 2022 so an order in January was, in tech terms, a fairly long time after launch, a third of the way towards the iPhone 15

"We are confident that the scans obtained post-delivery on 17/01/23 and of late were as a result of a barcode issue associated with a specific bag and actually had no bearing on the physical item itself;

"To provide more detail, sometimes if we experience an issue with scanning a barcode, our operational colleagues sometimes have to enter a tracking number manually which in this case was mis-typed causing incorrect tracking information to be attributed to this reference" - Hence it was scanned as 'refused - returned to sender' and now has a subsequent delivery scan."

This is from the retailer on behalf of RM as the retailer their customer i cant contact then directly and ask for information it. The reason for purchasing and refusing is irrelevant,  I dont keep up to date with technolnogy just had a marketing email and ussumed they either got them back in stock or they had just came out.

To be honest it was 6months ago soo yeh.

That doesn't make sense with regards to the part in bold

Tracking showed Delivered 17/01/2023
Tracking showed Refused and returned to sender 17/01/2023
Tracking showed as Item received 24/05/2023
Tracking showed as item due to be delivered today 30/05/2023
Tracking showed as item delivered and signed 30/05/2023 

I can understand it applying to the scans in May.

Are these scans not timed OP?

Can you track here

https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item

and provide a screenshot? (you can add an image in a post)

DullGreyGuy

Chippyshell said:

DullGreyGuy said:

It would be helpful for you to confirm exactly what RM is saying the official position of the parcel is... delivered to you, refused by you to be return to sender but unknown if that happened or delivered to the sender? Also confirm if you have that in writing from Royal Mail?

Also confused by your explanation that they had "just been launched"? The annual release of iPhones happens in september and the iPhone 14 came out in the UK on 16 September 2022 so an order in January was, in tech terms, a fairly long time after launch, a third of the way towards the iPhone 15

"We are confident that the scans obtained post-delivery on 17/01/23 and of late were as a result of a barcode issue associated with a specific bag and actually had no bearing on the physical item itself;

"To provide more detail, sometimes if we experience an issue with scanning a barcode, our operational colleagues sometimes have to enter a tracking number manually which in this case was mis-typed causing incorrect tracking information to be attributed to this reference" - Hence it was scanned as 'refused - returned to sender' and now has a subsequent delivery scan."

This is from the retailer on behalf of RM as the retailer their customer i cant contact then directly and ask for information it. The reason for purchasing and refusing is irrelevant,  I dont keep up to date with technolnogy just had a marketing email and ussumed they either got them back in stock or they had just came out.

To be honest it was 6months ago soo yeh.

The problem is that the scans on the 17th say both delivered to you and refused by you and delivered to the sender so the above advice is incomplete.

It would seem unlikely that if you refused it on the 17th it'd also have made its way back to sender on the 17th too but you may be paraphrasing or RM's wording may be poor. If its RM's poor wording then they'd presumably be able to confirm when they did actually deliver it back to the sender.

Whilst other couriers very much play the "you arent our customer card", I've always found RM to be much more reasonable on this front and ultimately you are asking "where's my parcel". 

Chippyshell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Chippyshell said:

DullGreyGuy said:

It would be helpful for you to confirm exactly what RM is saying the official position of the parcel is... delivered to you, refused by you to be return to sender but unknown if that happened or delivered to the sender? Also confirm if you have that in writing from Royal Mail?

Also confused by your explanation that they had "just been launched"? The annual release of iPhones happens in september and the iPhone 14 came out in the UK on 16 September 2022 so an order in January was, in tech terms, a fairly long time after launch, a third of the way towards the iPhone 15

"We are confident that the scans obtained post-delivery on 17/01/23 and of late were as a result of a barcode issue associated with a specific bag and actually had no bearing on the physical item itself;

"To provide more detail, sometimes if we experience an issue with scanning a barcode, our operational colleagues sometimes have to enter a tracking number manually which in this case was mis-typed causing incorrect tracking information to be attributed to this reference" - Hence it was scanned as 'refused - returned to sender' and now has a subsequent delivery scan."

This is from the retailer on behalf of RM as the retailer their customer i cant contact then directly and ask for information it. The reason for purchasing and refusing is irrelevant,  I dont keep up to date with technolnogy just had a marketing email and ussumed they either got them back in stock or they had just came out.

To be honest it was 6months ago soo yeh.

That doesn't make sense with regards to the part in bold

Tracking showed Delivered 17/01/2023
Tracking showed Refused and returned to sender 17/01/2023
Tracking showed as Item received 24/05/2023
Tracking showed as item due to be delivered today 30/05/2023
Tracking showed as item delivered and signed 30/05/2023 

I can understand it applying to the scans in May.

Are these scans not timed OP?

Can you track here

https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item

and provide a screenshot? (you can add an image in a post)

Here is the screenshot - Then the additional scans in May