Intelligent Octopus - Day Rate Price Reduction from 1st July

JohnPo

Just had an email with reduced day rates which is not much more than standard SVT from July 1st.

With the guaranteed 6 hours at 7.5p (11.30 to 5.30) this really is a good deal if you load shift and OK even if you can't.

I attach a screenshot from the pdf attachment showing the rates.

This Merseyside & North Wales region.

MWT

JohnPo said:

With the guaranteed 6 hours at 7.5p (11.30 to 5.30) this really is a good deal if you load shift and OK even if you can't.

I attach a screenshot from the pdf attachment showing the rates.

So need a compatible EV, or any EV with a compatible EVSE, but yes, it is a great choice for those with NSH and an EV for example as the 6 hours overnight should give enough time for the NSH in winter...

JohnPo

MWT said:

JohnPo said:

With the guaranteed 6 hours at 7.5p (11.30 to 5.30) this really is a good deal if you load shift and OK even if you can't.

I attach a screenshot from the pdf attachment showing the rates.

So need a compatible EV, or any EV with a compatible EVSE, but yes, it is a great choice for those with NSH and an EV for example as the 6 hours overnight should give enough time for the NSH in winter...

Also you do get additional slots outside the core hours, so you if you 'game' the app. a little bit depending on the EV state of charge by saying for example by saying  you want car charged by 4am, you get earlier evening slots opened up at the 7.5p rate. Currently waiting to put the washing machine on at 8.30pm today when the smart charge schedule starts for me today.

MWT

JohnPo said:

Also you do get additional slots outside the core hours, so you if you 'game' the app. a little bit depending on the EV state of charge by saying for example by saying  you want car charged by 4am, you get earlier evening slots opened up at the 7.5p rate.

I haven't seen them use it yet, but the T&Cs do include this bit...

2.4.7 Intelligent Octopus is subject to a fair use policy with a maximum of six hours of managed charging per 24 hours. Should your charging schedule request more than six hours per 24 hours, we reserve the right to charge any incremental usage above six hours at the day rate.

... so I wouldn't be inclined to 'game' too often or too outrageously, as you wouldn't want to be the first one to get them to use that clause...

Spoonie_Turtle

If you set the timings right, does it give you more hours at the low rate or simply move the six hours to start at a different time?

JohnPo

I have seen the fair use clause, but I can't see how they can sensibly enforce it, as the core hours are guaranteed at the 7.5p rate.

I guess if you had a smart charge session with various slots starting early in day then if 6+ hours were outside the core hours then perhaps you might get penalised.  But until somebody pops up her complaining then we don't know.

As with other Octopus Ts and Cs all a bit opaque as to how they will or will not apply them (other obvious example people without EVs on Octopus GO - was previously on that and never asked for proof - had an EV by the way!)

MWT

JohnPo said:

I have seen the fair use clause, but I can't see how they can sensibly enforce it, as the core hours are guaranteed at the 7.5p rate.

That clause specifically references 'managed charging' and I suspect it aimed at those who were limiting the charge rate to force very long charge periods.

The core low-rate period wouldn't be a problem as this clause, if they chose to use it, would trigger on the system generating a managed schedule over 6 hours long, whenever it occurred...

This is like the US immigration forms that ask if you are intending to commit crimes or espionage, they don't expect people to say 'yes' but having the question there means they can simply deport them for lying on the form if they get caught without needing other proof.

Having the clause there means they can take action if they feel the need without arguing about the fine details of exactly what the person did to game the system...

JohnPo

That clause specifically references 'managed charging' and I suspect it aimed at those who were limiting the charge rate to force very long charge periods.

The core low-rate period wouldn't be a problem as this clause, if they chose to use it, would trigger on the system generating a managed schedule over 6 hours long, whenever it occurred...

I do not disagree at all with how you interpretation of the 'fair use' rules. The counter argument is that the Octopus App 'Intelligently' chooses the charging hours, so if they have a 'fair use' policy, the app should allocate the hours accordingly.  I can't see how if they tried to retrospectively apply this particular rule on a particular bill that a complaint that went to the ombudsman would be upheld in their favour.  Although proving certain hours were at cheap rate when there is no record kept is a different matter unless you screenshot each session.

In mean time some guys / gals  on Tesla SpeakEV forum are getting 9+ extra hours a day cheap rate using a granny charger so we will see how they choose to clamp down! Probably a technological solution limiting out of core hours slots.

JohnPo

Spoonie_Turtle said:

If you set the timings right, does it give you more hours at the low rate or simply move the six hours to start at a different time?

The rules are that the 11.30 to 5.30 am period is always the cheap / night rate i.e the current 7.5p - irrespective of whether you smart charge or not.  The 'smart charge' process via the app. may or may not include half hour slots outside those core hours.

Hence the queries / issues referred to above around the 'Fair Use' policy.

So to answer your query you can possibly get many hours at the cheap rate on top of the core 6 hours but it is variable based on some factors the user controls and on others Octopus controls.

Scot_39

MWT said:

JohnPo said:

With the guaranteed 6 hours at 7.5p (11.30 to 5.30) this really is a good deal if you load shift and OK even if you can't.

I attach a screenshot from the pdf attachment showing the rates.

So need a compatible EV, or any EV with a compatible EVSE, but yes, it is a great choice for those with NSH and an EV for example as the 6 hours overnight should give enough time for the NSH in winter...

Would it even work with older NSH - those that currently rely on ACLS meter switched circuits to activate ?

Yes I guess you might be able to fit spur timers etc that some have on HW immersion (but not heard anyone confirm they have done so) - or upgrade to programmable heaters at a cost of £1000s.

[Deleted User]

Scot_39 said:

MWT said:

JohnPo said:

With the guaranteed 6 hours at 7.5p (11.30 to 5.30) this really is a good deal if you load shift and OK even if you can't.

I attach a screenshot from the pdf attachment showing the rates.

So need a compatible EV, or any EV with a compatible EVSE, but yes, it is a great choice for those with NSH and an EV for example as the 6 hours overnight should give enough time for the NSH in winter...

Would it even work with older NSH - those that currently rely on ACLS meter switched circuits to activate ?

Yes I guess you might be able to fit spur timers etc that some have on HW immersion (but not heard anyone confirm they have done so) - or upgrade to programmable heaters at a cost of £1000s.

Unless you have an EV or EVSE, you cannot be on this tariff. Octopus has to run a compatability check with the EV or EVSE to confirm that the EV will charge.