legal definition of a 'sample'?

outofcontrolmoaner

HillStreetBlues said:

Do they claim anywhere pattern is on both sides?
Are they made to measure?

They do not clearly state the pattern is only on one side - but it seems the consensus among the response here is that the sample does that job. Words are not needed - assumption is everything (unless you're assuming the existing precedent of verticals being the same on both sides). Yes, made to measure as a patterned blind (not a semi patterned blind).

pramsay13

I have 5 sets of blinds in our house, and only 1 has pattern on both sides, the rest are one-sided.

I think you're being unreasonable as your blind matches exactly the sample you have been sent, but unfortunately you made some incorrect assumptions about the sample. 

Grumpy_chap

outofcontrolmoaner said:

Hi Forum - if you're given a sample (fabric etc) - is there a legal definition of what that should be, does anyone know? 

I recently ordered some vertical blinds from a well known supplier. They're patterned, but it turns out, only on one side. The supplier tells me I was shown a sample and as such I've been able to hold it, feel it, put it against a window... - but the one thing I wasn't made aware of was, the pattern is only visible on one side. 

Their website shows the blind - all pattern (i.e. it doesn't show the blank side). The product description doesn't note the one side only situation, either. A video, with a different patterned blind, shows a blind with a pattern on both sides.

The supplier has basically told me to sling my hook - that they sell through agents and the product can't be purchased through the website. This seems odd. These are still marketing materials - and without expressly being told that a pattern is only visible on one side, am I alone in thinking the only side most people would consider is the patterned side, given that it's sold as a patterned blind, not a half patterned one - and that vertical blinds will commonly be seen from both sides unless fully shut (patterned side out). 

I tried their CEO who directed it back to the 'customer experience' people who'd already told me there was no fault on their part. So - should a sample meet any requirements legally? 

Did you order all online?  I wonder whether the 14-day right to return is available as a remedy?  Assuming the blinds are not considered bespoke.

Was the sample patterned on one side and plain on the other?

outofcontrolmoaner

pramsay13 said:

I have 5 sets of blinds in our house, and only 1 has pattern on both sides, the rest are one-sided.

I think you're being unreasonable as your blind matches exactly the sample you have been sent, but unfortunately you made some incorrect assumptions about the sample. 

Yep - that'd be totally fine if it was clear to me. I can accept that I'm the stupid person in the room and don't understand what samples are, too. But for the company concerned it would be the easiest thing in the world to explicitly state on the sample that it's only patterned on one side. That cuts the possibility of error - the customer assumes a patterned vertical blind is all pattern, the agent neglects to point out the sample only has the pattern on one side. I shouldn't have to assume anything about the sample.

Added to which - if the company concerned are so reasonable (against my being unreasonable) - why don't they photograph the non-patterned side of the blind and clearly show it in their marketing materials? After all, if the samples do all the work, they don't need any photographs at all, do they.

You are probably happy because you understood what you were buying - so much so, you purchased 4 of them.

Well, interesting to see what the perspectives are - and what different worlds we all occupy.

outofcontrolmoaner

Grumpy_chap said:

outofcontrolmoaner said:

Hi Forum - if you're given a sample (fabric etc) - is there a legal definition of what that should be, does anyone know? 

I recently ordered some vertical blinds from a well known supplier. They're patterned, but it turns out, only on one side. The supplier tells me I was shown a sample and as such I've been able to hold it, feel it, put it against a window... - but the one thing I wasn't made aware of was, the pattern is only visible on one side. 

Their website shows the blind - all pattern (i.e. it doesn't show the blank side). The product description doesn't note the one side only situation, either. A video, with a different patterned blind, shows a blind with a pattern on both sides.

The supplier has basically told me to sling my hook - that they sell through agents and the product can't be purchased through the website. This seems odd. These are still marketing materials - and without expressly being told that a pattern is only visible on one side, am I alone in thinking the only side most people would consider is the patterned side, given that it's sold as a patterned blind, not a half patterned one - and that vertical blinds will commonly be seen from both sides unless fully shut (patterned side out). 

I tried their CEO who directed it back to the 'customer experience' people who'd already told me there was no fault on their part. So - should a sample meet any requirements legally? 

Did you order all online?  I wonder whether the 14-day right to return is available as a remedy?  Assuming the blinds are not considered bespoke.

Was the sample patterned on one side and plain on the other?

No, that's their point - it's not an e-com business (so they can put what they want on their website - like a lack of photography of the non patterned side). Nice thought, but they are made to measure. The company have made their position clear - I started this thread mainly because I was intrigued about the legal def of a 'sample'. Seems I'm in the minority though so I shall live and learn (and remain mildly perplexed about how some people's minds work - and what some brands consider clear comms/customer service).

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP you seem to be saying the blinds match the sample but not the video on the website? 

If so the goods do match the sample but not the description 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/11/enacted

(1)Every contract to supply goods by description is to be treated as including a term that the goods will match the description.

(2)If the supply is by sample as well as by description, it is not sufficient that the bulk of the goods matches the sample if the goods do not also match the description.

If not I've misunderstood  

sheramber

I have never seen patterned vertical blinds.

My blinds are plain on both sides and so are those on every house in my street.

My neighbour keeps her vertical blinds closed all the time.

outofcontrolmoaner

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP you seem to be saying the blinds match the sample but not the video on the website? 

If so the goods do match the sample but not the description 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/11/enacted

(1)Every contract to supply goods by description is to be treated as including a term that the goods will match the description.

(2)If the supply is by sample as well as by description, it is not sufficient that the bulk of the goods matches the sample if the goods do not also match the description.

If not I've misunderstood  

Thanks for this @the_l@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The company's position is that it doesn't matter how the goods are described (or not) on the website, because a sample was shown (felt, handled, put against a window etc, etc) and that goods cannot be ordered through the site, but only through their 3rd party agents. 

This seems to defer responsibility onto the agents. Meanwhile, such a policy would also mean that a company can, effectively, make any kind of description in digital media (and presumably, also, print) because - "customer saw a sample". Therefore such a business model would effectively mean it's the wild west for consumer rights, because "customer saw a sample" and we don't have to transparently represent the entire product in any media assets.

The video doesn't show the same product, but another patterned blind shown rotating, with a pattern on both sides. This, in my view, adds to the precedent that verticals are usually the same on both sides (clearly there are exceptions, but this should be made clear through words and images). The stills photography only shows the patterned side out, not the partial hemming/blank side.

The company say the website page is only there to give, 'an overview' of the product (just not so much of an overview to explicitly show what you'll get - so more of an underview). They don't believe it's mis-selling - I believe it is - and according to your link, the law would appear to agree. Unless I've got my blinds crossed.

Much appreciated - thank you!

tightauldgit

I'm confused. you're complaining that the actual product DID match the sample and wasn't different in the way that you hoped it would be despite not being told it would be by anyone? 

And you are complaining to the manufacturer even though you didn't buy it from them because they don't sell direct to consumers?

Grumpy_chap

outofcontrolmoaner said:

goods cannot be ordered through the site, but only through their 3rd party agents. 

This seems to defer responsibility onto the agents. 

Any rights you have will be with the agents and not the manufacturer - your contract is with the agent whom you paid. 
Assuming the agents are actually local independent companies, not just the travelling sales reps for the manufacturer.
Who does your order form say the order is with?