Private PCN - Charge for allegedly exceeding allowed stay by 30 seconds

Jack_Bauer

Hi,

The local gym has a partnership with the local car park allowing for gym attendees to park for 1.5 hours for free whilst attending the gym. As the registered owner of the vehicle, I've just received a PCN via post from a BPA registered organization, acting on behalf of the car park land owner, requesting £100, £60 if paid within 14 days.

They've provided details of the charge, including a number plate and arrival and departure where the total time accounts to 1 hour 30 minutes and 30 seconds.

The alleged contravention date was 25/5/2023 and the date of notice was 8/6/2023. This is 14 days. I received this letter today (14/6/2023), 20 days after the alleged contravention date and 6 days after the date of notice. I've taken no actions thus far.

They have an online appeals process only.

Could some of you lovely knowledgeable people let me know what my options are? Thank you.

Half_way

what is this organisation that is registered with the British Parking Association limited? odds on its a private parking company that is focussed on issuing parking charge notices to increase its profits. 
there are many of these parasites, but which one is it?


who's car park is it?

Coupon-mad

You are mistaken. The PCN is not and could never be for alleged overstay of less than 10 minutes.

The PCN is because the keypad system has not been used, or it wasn't working, or the driver may have made a minor typo with the registration that day.  It is all about exempting the VRM inside the gym at the keypad.

Very simple. Just send the template blue writing appeal and don't tell them who was driving.  DO NOT type anything that implies it either, so do not add "I always type my VRM in"!

Change the template appeal paragraph about a 'pay & display' machine to instead demand proof of redacted VRM logs because if they are alleging a keying error they must prove it wasn't minor.

See the NEWBIES thread.

Which PPC?

Castle

Jack_Bauer said:

Hi,

The alleged contravention date was 25/5/2023 and the date of notice was 8/6/2023. This is 14 days. I received this letter today (14/6/2023), 20 days after the alleged contravention date and 6 days after the date of notice. I've taken no actions thus far.

Fails to meet the POFA requirements of 14 days for receipt-deemed date of receipt is 12th June.

Jack_Bauer

Half_way said:

what is this organisation that is registered with the British Parking Association limited? odds on its a private parking company that is focussed on issuing parking charge notices to increase its profits. 
there are many of these parasites, but which one is it?


who's car park is it?

Hi,

The car park is owned by CitiPark and the letter is from BaySentry Solutions, acting as the creditor.

Coupon-mad

No worries.  Told you exactly how to win.

Jack_Bauer

Coupon-mad said:

You are mistaken. The PCN is not and could never be for alleged overstay of less than 10 minutes.

The PCN is because the keypad system has not been used, or it wasn't working, or the driver may have made a minor typo with the registration that day.  It is all about exempting the VRM inside the gym at the keypad.

Very simple. Just send the template blue writing appeal and don't tell them who was driving.  DO NOT type anything that implies it either, so do not add "I always type my VRM in"!

Change the template appeal paragraph about a 'pay & display' machine to instead demand proof of redacted VRM logs because if they are alleging a keying error they must prove it wasn't minor.

See the NEWBIES thread.

Which PPC?

Hi,

Many thanks for this!

It is entirely possible I forgot to key in my number plate at the gym on the day in question. It was around midnight and being as tired as I was, it's possible. What is my defense in that case if there is nothing shown in the VRM.

Also, I believe I've made the recommended amendments. Should I send the following?

Re PCN number: xxxxxx

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation concerns a VRM, you must include proof by means of redacted VRM logs if you are alleging a keying error, you must prove it wasn't minor.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Lastly, the PCN fails to meet the POFA requirements of 14 days for receipt-deemed date of receipt is 12th June. The letter was received today on 14th June 2023.

Coupon-mad

Why have you left the phrase in that I advised you to remove about a PDT (Pay & Display Ticket) machine?

You don't need a defence against what happened.  It's not a fine or a crime and you won't be paying even if your POPLA appeal loses.

EDIT:
YOU WILL WIN ANYWAY DUE TO THE NON-POFA PCN, AS LONG AS YOU POINT THAT OUT AT POPLA STAGE.

Nothing to worry about. Exact same advice as here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80111295/#Comment_80111295

See you back here in August please!

Jack_Bauer

Coupon-mad said:

Why have you left the phrase in that I advised you to remove about a PDT (Pay & Display Ticket) machine?

You don't need a defence against what happened.  It's not a fine or a crime and you won't be paying even if your POPLA appeal loses.

EDIT:
YOU WILL WIN ANYWAY DUE TO THE NON-POFA PCN, AS LONG AS YOU POINT THAT OUT AT POPLA STAGE.

Nothing to worry about. Exact same advice as here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80111295/#Comment_80111295

See you back here in August please!

Hi sorry, quick update on this, when logging into the appeals site and retrieving the details, it gives slightly more information than the letter which suggests that I indeed forgot to key in my number plate on the way out from the gym.

The Site Enforcer had reasonable belief that the above vehicle had committed the following contravention:

Contravention: Parked with no valid parking session/electronic permit

So do I just continue as normal and send the response, minus the bit around the PDT?

Jack_Bauer

Also, what option do I choose from here? Looks like they're really trying to obtain an admission of guilt

Coupon-mad

Choose the second one.  The car 'should' be exempt from the keypad records.  Never mind what actually happened.

You'll win at POPLA stage as long as you don't imply who was driving. And DON'T reply to a letter begging for the driver's name.