Fraud by buyer/Ombudsman

ebw1969

My partner sold something on ebay which the buyer used (the item enables you to mine crypto) for a number of months and then they tried to get their money back. My partner was advised by his bank to block ebay from refunding the money and to take the case to the Ombudsman as ebay were insisting we had to accept that they could return it despite the length of time they had had it and having the ability to earn money from the item. While this dispute was going on the buyer having been told not to return the item got my partners address from eBay and sent it back anyway.
The ombudsman case has taken many months and much stress and constant explaining from us exactly how the buyer was defrauding us as there was nothing wrong with the item and he had been able to use it for months before deciding he wasn't earning enough from it.
We have just had the ombudsman decision who say that we cannot legally dispute with eBay as they have acted in good faith after the buyers bank refunded the buyer and ebay are just recouping their losses from us. The trouble is noone will give us the details of the bank. Legally we don't have a case with disputing with eBay albeit have not been told this prior to the ombudsmans decision - in the many months it has been going on. We also have not been given the tools to dispute the buyers banks decision as noone will give us the information we need to do this.
Is there any way forward or do sellers on ebay just have to accept people are able to defraud them in this way purely because the buyer changes their mind. 
This item is several hundred pounds. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

Your claim is with the buyer for making a false claim with their bank. 

Are you acting a business selling such items?

DullGreyGuy

ebw1969 said:

My partner sold something on ebay which the buyer used (the item enables you to mine crypto) for a number of months and then they tried to get their money back. My partner was advised by his bank to block ebay from refunding the money and to take the case to the Ombudsman as ebay were insisting we had to accept that they could return it despite the length of time they had had it and having the ability to earn money from the item. While this dispute was going on the buyer having been told not to return the item got my partners address from eBay and sent it back anyway.
The ombudsman case has taken many months and much stress and constant explaining from us exactly how the buyer was defrauding us as there was nothing wrong with the item and he had been able to use it for months before deciding he wasn't earning enough from it.
We have just had the ombudsman decision who say that we cannot legally dispute with eBay as they have acted in good faith after the buyers bank refunded the buyer and ebay are just recouping their losses from us. The trouble is noone will give us the details of the bank. Legally we don't have a case with disputing with eBay albeit have not been told this prior to the ombudsmans decision - in the many months it has been going on. We also have not been given the tools to dispute the buyers banks decision as noone will give us the information we need to do this.
Is there any way forward or do sellers on ebay just have to accept people are able to defraud them in this way purely because the buyer changes their mind. 
This item is several hundred pounds. 

Was it your return key?

You are a seller, the other person is a buyer, the two of you are in contract with each other. eBay is simply a market place that allowed the two of you to connect and facilitated the transfer of monies.

A Chargeback is a mechanism of the card network system, if you want to allow your customers to pay by card you have to agree to allow chargebacks to happen. Banks are not a judge, jury or executioner and therefore whilst they may move money in line with the scheme rules the ultimate deciders are the courts.

You appear to disagree the buyer is entitled to a refund and so your option is to file a small claims court against the buyer, though first you need to send them a letter before action. You clearly have their address as you managed to send them the item.

tacpot12

You need professional legal advice before you take this to the small claims court, as there is a risk you would not win the case. You also need to consider whether the buyer will constantly evade the court's decision. 

ebw1969

Thanks both it was an item used to mine crypto and after months of possible use they decided to return presumably as they hadn't got the return they wanted on it. 
We did not say we would accept return but Ebay released our address and it got sent back to us anyway. His bank refunded him and apparently our issue is with their decision but we don't know who they are. 
It's so frustrating as many of the people we have dealt with on the way honestly don't understand the crypto market and therefore why this is so sneaky the buyer had the item months. 

soolin

What sort of chargeback was it and was this u Dee PayPal or managed payments? 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

ebw1969 said:

Thanks both it was an item used to mine crypto and after months of possible use they decided to return presumably as they hadn't got the return they wanted on it. 
We did not say we would accept return but Ebay released our address and it got sent back to us anyway. His bank refunded him and apparently our issue is with their decision but we don't know who they are. 
It's so frustrating as many of the people we have dealt with on the way honestly don't understand the crypto market and therefore why this is so sneaky the buyer had the item months. 

This sounds as if it was a business transaction OP?

If it was did you provide the buyer with

(l)where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38;

If not the cancellation period is 1 year and 14 days so they'd have the right to cancel in which case I'd let it go.

If you did, or you are a genuine private seller, then resell the item and issue small claims for the difference in sale price plus any fees associated with the chargeback. 

There's no recourse via eBay or the bank, very rare for such issues to occur but it's simply a part of selling on eBay that you have to accept, frustrating but selling (and life in general) is easier if you can get past that and accept there will be ups and there will be downs  

RFW

Some good advice above.

One thing I'd ask is if the product is still usable as when you first sent it out?

So if you sell a pair of shoes and someone wears them out then sends them back you'll have something tangible to show where you've lost money. If, on the other hand, the shoes come back new/as new it's harder to prove you've lost anything.

Without a clue what the product is it's hard to ascertain whether you can still use it or sell it again.

At this stage it's a matter of working out how much you may have lost moving forward. Sometimes it's easier to cut your losses an move on but I don't know what the losses are.

I'd agree with tacpot12 that if you want to pursue a legal route you'll need advice and there's no guarantees of winning or of getting any money out of the buyer if you do. It can be a costly experience with nothing to show at the end of it.

I also know these products can be in a grey area, so make sure it's something you are allowed to sell on Ebay or anywhere before pursuing anything.

martindow

Before you think about legal action you need to quantify your loss.  Like others above I am not sure there is any apart from the postage cost if this item is still usable.  Was it second hand when you sold it?  If so its value has probably not changed appreciably.

You will have to pay a fee to open a claim and it is not worthwhile if there is doubt about the outcome.  In any case 'winning' can be only the start of the saga of trying to get any money paid back.

Incidentally does crypto mining stillmake financial sense at the moment with high electricity prices?

GadgetGuru

How was the buyer able to return the item via eBay after several months??
I thought cases could only be open within 30 days of receiving the item??

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

IftiBashir said:

How was the buyer able to return the item via eBay after several months??
I thought cases could only be open within 30 days of receiving the item??

OP's buyer preformed a chargeback with their bank which opens a payment dispute case.

These can be defended with tracking if the buyer's reason with the bank was non-receipt or they don't recognise the transaction, for SNAD eBay says they will accept evidence, such as photos, but I don't think there's much chance of winning these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799