Another PCN Post (But please help!)

ranid96

Advice please! The "newbie pages" are really confusing and each case is different. I have 3 questions if anyone is able to answer.

TICKET 1 - No visitor permit showing for 7 minutes. Court date next month. My defence is formal but lacking legalese and evidence strength/references from what I've seen others posting. My court date should have been last month but is now next month.
Question 1: Is it too late to add to my defence/witness statement? I don't even know what the difference is between them.
Question 2: Can you really just copy and paste what somebody else has said? Honestly I think 7 minutes without a permit should be a laughable case shrugged off on its own, but of course the world unfortunately doesn't work like that. 

TICKET 2 - Property manager tried to remove this one for me, but was unable to as it had already gone through to zzps/GCTT, with the current letter showing a notice of transfer to solicitors if no payment is made in 14 days. (it's been 18). I have only contacted the parking company with proof that the property manager tried to revoke the fine. I have not spoken to the "enforcement agents", everything on here advises against that.
Question 3: Is it really not worth showing them the email of the property manager trying to remove the ticket to get them to back off?

Coupon-mad

TICKET 1 - No visitor permit showing for 7 minutes. Court date next month.

My defence is formal but lacking legalese and evidence strength/references from what I've seen others posting. My court date should have been last month but is now next month.
Question 1: Is it too late to add to my defence/witness statement? I don't even know what the difference is between them.

The NEWBIES thread explains the difference.

Read the WS stage section in the second post there (because the advice answers your question) but DO NOT USE the RobertCox one linked there as it's old, and he lost, and the exhibits are out of date.

YOU MUST FILE AND SERVE A WS AND EVIDENCE THIS MONTH.  IT IS VITAL.

What is your deadline? 14 days before?

What did your defence say?  Word for word please, copied from MCOL if you put it online.

I guess you already had their WS bundle so you can respond to the rubbish in that.

Yes, copy and paste the final version WS bundle by @aphex007 in their thread, and add your own facts and photos/evidence.

------------------------

TICKET 2 - Property manager tried to remove this one for me, but was unable to as it had already gone through to zzps/GCTT, with the current letter showing a notice of transfer to solicitors if no payment is made in 14 days. (it's been 18). I have only contacted the parking company with proof that the property manager tried to revoke the fine. I have not spoken to the "enforcement agents", everything on here advises against that. 
Question 3: Is it really not worth showing them the email of the property manager trying to remove the ticket to get them to back off?

Please ignore the £170 demands and only start a new thread to separate advice for that one if you get a LBC.

No advice needed for that one yet.  Only start a thread about it at LBC or claim stage. 

1505grandad

Who is the claimant fo ticket 1?

ranid96

Thanks for your response, very much appreciated. It doesn't actually give a deadline date it just says 14 days from the date of the letter. Today it will have been 19, so I'm assuming 5 days ago, the 9th.

I don't know if I ever even did a WS, however my mum did, I was parking in one of the V bays outside her house and she saw everything.  Warden even lied as she recognised me and my car and told me she hadn't issued one. Hate those parasites.

As for pasting my defence here, is it wise to? Would it be better to send it over personally? I don't want to shoot myself in the foot potentially in doing so because I know so little about this all!

As for ticket 2, what is an LBC? Is that the inital business court letter prior to small claims proceedings?

ranid96

1505grandad said:

Who is the claimant fo ticket 1?

Parking and Property Management Ltd

Fruitcake

Acronyms and abbreviations common to the parking forum can be found in the fifth post of the NEWBIES.
LBC/LOC = Letter Before Claim/Letter Of Claim.

If you are only given 14 days then either it is not a LBC/LOC or if it is purporting to be one then it fails the strict requirements of the PAP that must give you 30 days to respond before a claim can be issued.

Yes, post your defence here. Use the template Defence from the sticky Announcement and amend paragraphs 2 and 3. Post only the parts of the template you have amended, but use the whole of the template if/when you get a claim.

Plan A is still a complaint to the landowner and managing agent, and your MP.

For any residential parking charge/claim, primacy of contract (the resident's lease/AST) is always the primary defence point. What it doesn't say is equally important.

Coupon-mad

ranid96 said:

Thanks for your response, very much appreciated. It doesn't actually give a deadline date it just says 14 days from the date of the letter. Today it will have been 19, so I'm assuming 5 days ago, the 9th.

I don't know if I ever even did a WS, however my mum did...

No, that's not the deadline or the PCN I was asking about.  I was asking about the court claim Hearing Order from the court.

Please don't muddle up the 'ticket 2' letters with the important one you are defending.  Like I said, you do not need advice about that £170 threatogram one.

Please answer my question about your WS deadline?

YOUR DEFENCE WAS NOT YOUR WS.  

These are two separate stages and you have defended already if the court claim arrived months ago and you now have a local hearing set.

We need to see it. Verbatim please.  The defence to this court claim that you put in months ago.

Please don't send me anything by pm as I don't have time to look at them.

ranid96

Coupon-mad said

Perhaps you could provide context and/or be more specific then. Especially as I've already indicated I'm completely new to this. You people seem to thrive off "helping" others but deliver it with such sour attitude!! It's really odd. If helping me out is going top p*ss you off so much then why even bother?

I still have zero idea what you mean when about a deadline, but the court date should have been last month but was moved last minute, so any deadline you may refer to has probably well and truly passed.

The witness statement my mum wrote - (not an appeal[?!]) I was given the option in the original business court paperwork for any other witnesses, so included her, got her to write her version of the events and compiled it in with the evidence sent.

Anyway, I've listed my crappy defence and counterclaim below. I can't find anything on the MCOL website about a witness statement, so I guess I don't have one. Fresh start could be a good thing I suppose.

I was originally given a parking charge for parking outside my
mother's house. I noticed the woman, who claimed her name was
Alex, approaching my vehicle soon after arriving. She advised that
she had already given the car next to me a ticket but hadn't
issued one for my car yet. I explained the situation and said I
was visiting family and just needed to grab the permit to display.
Alex drove off after confirming that a ticket was never issued.
Then I received it in the post weeks later. I tried to complain
about Alex, her lies and the unjustifiable charge to the company
she works for. I was ignored, and BW legal began sending
threatening letters to my home address claiming I owe them, and
Parking and Property Management LTD, money.

Counterclaim details

Counterclaim Amount

£135.00

Court Fee

£35.00

Nature of counterclaim

Unethical practice and failed duty of care as a local parking enforcement

Particulars of Counterclaim

My original appeal and complaint email was completely ignored despite the PCN being completely justified. There has to be reasonably allocated time to those leaving their cars and entering a house to obtain a permit. Despite the woman who gave me this ticket appeared to agree with me, she lied and issued a ticket despite the fact I was parking within the rules of the area.

This hasn't been my first fine from the company but luckily the housing association of the area has somebody dedicated to removing these unjustified tickets. Me and my family have had 3 stricken from the record now. The housing association VIVID brought this company into action to protect residents from others who intend to park for free in town. Instead, this company only seems to issue fines to residents themselves. I've heard several people paying these fines out of fear despite most being completely unjustified.

I'm aware these companies are commission based and the people who issue the charge notices have zero risk when acting immorally, however still reap the benefits of financial gain. These unjustified charges are an abhorrent scheme to generate money unfairly and I intend to counterclaim £100 for hours of stress caused. This includes hours of stress and anxiety; time wasted responding to an unjustified claim; opening several threatening letters and taking time to write an email that was ignored instead of acting accordingly with duty of care as a parking enforcement company

I also intend to claim back £35 for the court fee.

Coupon-mad

MCOL hasn't been involved for months; that was just an admin centre gateway for the claim and defence (at the start of the process). Don't read MCOL stuff as that's not your stage.

Months ago, your case was transferred out to your local court - MCOL is now history, not involved - and it's the local court's Order letters that tell you about the requirement to file and serve a WS/evidence bundle (like the Claimant has done already, we assume).

The deadline for both parties to file and serve their own witness statements is in the 2nd page or back of the Hearing Order that the local court sent.

Occasionally, it was in an earlier court letter. You are looking for a paragraph something like:

Each party must deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than [ . . . ] [14 days before the hearing].

Might be on the back.

Those 'documents on which you intend to rely' are your Witness Statement and evidence.

As I said, you must file and serve your WS (your own one) and your evidence this month.  The NEWBIES thread explains this stage in detail.

But don't use the RobertCox example there. Use as your base, the one that I gave you the link to already in my first reply.

Did you pay the £35 fee to make the counterclaim 'live' at the time when you defended?

ranid96

Coupon-mad,

I'd imagine the deadline has passed but either way I'm still going to get it done. Got nothing to lose and I've heard courts happily accept documentation sent further on down the line.

I did pay the counterclaim fee online, yes.

I could only seem to find V3 as a pdf, do you know if there's a word doc floating about of it?

Do I structure anything regarding counterclaim in there or write up something separate for that?

Coupon-mad

You have to do a WS and exhibits (case law etc) to support the counterclaim too.