EDF failed to increase direct debt, told us to do nothing, we're now £2,230 in debt

Helen1234567

Help!

We've recently moved house and in process of closing the EDF account for the old property. 

We've received an closing balance invoice of £2,229.98. 

Timeline of account balance (as informed by EDF):

• Sept 2022: In credit by £1,633.54
• 10 Oct 2022: Refund sent of £872.28 (balance in credit of £761.26)
• 21 Oct 2022: In debit £988.24
• 14 Nov 2022: In debit £850.24 
• 12 Dec 2022: In debit £672.24
• 12 Jan 2023: In debit £1,414.42
• 14 Feb 2023: In debit £1,756.78
• 31 May 2023: Bill rec'd saying we owe £2,229.98 immediately on 16 June 2023. 

EDF can't tell me why there was a swing of £1,750 in the 11 days between 10.10.22 and 21.10.22.

Further, 14 February 2023 bill states :

"We've completed a review and calculated your direct debit for the year ahead. The review showed there's an outstanding amount of £1,756.78 that is now due. Don't worry, this balance is included in your direct debit, so you can pay it back across the year through your monthly payments. 

Because your monthly payments are staying the same, there is nothing you need to do at the moment. We can confirm that your monthly payment remains at £158"

They've offered us £50 credit but we feel this is too low due to a complete failure on EDF's part to adjust the direct debit amount and literally telling us "there's nothing you need to do at the moment" leaving us in £2k+ worth of debt. 

They're due to take the full balance on 16 June 2022. Escalated our complaint last week but EDF (and it's wholly inadequate systems) have failed and we have been told that it's impossible to EDF to put the account into a hold status until the dispute is resolved with the assistance of Citizens Advice (EDF have told us they referred our complaint to CA on Friday and that someone from CA would ring today).

We've been told by EDF our only recourse is to stop the full amount being taken is to cancel the direct debt at our end. I'm concerned if we do this the account will be passed straight to debt collectors, even though the amount outstanding is in dispute.

FYI, both gas and electric were smart meters. 

Surely EDF have a duty to avoid their customer getting into debt and to adjust direct debts in a timely manner rather than just demanding payment. 

Asked EDF how to escalate our complained and they've failed to mentioned the Energy Ombudsman - that in itself must be a breach of some sort of regulation? 

Any advice?? 

[Deleted User]

Hi,

do you have any actual meter readings for that period, unit price and daily standing charge?

CSI_Yorkshire

Helen1234567 said:

Surely EDF have a duty to avoid their customer getting into debt and to adjust direct debts in a timely manner rather than just demanding payment. 

EdF also have the hundreds of people complaining online and writing to the papers whenever they put direct debits up or whenever there is any credit in an account.

frugal is right - the first thing is actual readings and actual prices to see whether the bill is right or wrong.

Helen1234567 said:

"We've completed a review and calculated your direct debit for the year ahead. The review showed there's an outstanding amount of £1,756.78 that is now due. Don't worry, this balance is included in your direct debit, so you can pay it back across the year through your monthly payments. 

Because your monthly payments are staying the same, there is nothing you need to do at the moment. We can confirm that your monthly payment remains at £158"

They've offered us £50 credit but we feel this is too low due to a complete failure on EDF's part to adjust the direct debit amount and literally telling us "there's nothing you need to do at the moment" leaving us in £2k+ worth of debt. 
 

What this means is "at the end of twelve months we think this direct debit is enough to cover usage and debt".  What it doesn't mean is "if you leave after three months the debt will all be gone".  How should they know you were going to move out a few weeks into the yearly cycle?

edit: Krakkers (below) is spot on though, it does seem like an unusually low number unless they're expecting some pretty big price drops (although I'm not sure how much they're allowed to include predictions like that).

Krakkkers

£158 pm was never going to clear that debt in a year?

Robin9

Have you escalated the complaint beyond Customer Services ?

[Deleted User]

Asked EDF how to escalate our complained and they've failed to mentioned the Energy Ombudsman - that in itself must be a breach of some sort of regulation? 

You cannot escalate your complaint until you have a Deadlock Letter or 8 weeks has elapsed. The DeadLock Letter will include details of how you can take your complaint to The Energy Ombudsman.

Before you escalate a complaint, you need to be sure of your facts as EOS investigates nothing. It looks at what you have sent in and a case file from the supplier. Emotive words like ‘duty to avoid their customer getting into debt’ will carry no weight. A debt is only a debt when it has been classified as such and the bill remains unpaid for 28 days.

EDF has a 6 monthly DD review process so it is always possible that some customers will accrue a debit balance by the end of the Winter period. 

Looking at the figures that you have posted, there were clearly signs that your payments were lower than they needed to be. Consumers have some responsibility for managing their own energy accounts.

dunstonh

They've offered us £50 credit but we feel this is too low due to a complete failure on EDF's part to adjust the direct debit amount and literally telling us "there's nothing you need to do at the moment" leaving us in £2k+ worth of debt. 

EDF only adjust the direct debit if a) you tell them to or b) it gets out of sync with their modelling - this is checked once every 6 months.  I

We've been told by EDF our only recourse is to stop the full amount being taken is to cancel the direct debt at our end. I'm concerned if we do this the account will be passed straight to debt collectors, even though the amount outstanding is in dispute.

Is the amount in dispute?    Are you saying that you didn't use that energy and the amount is wrong?

Or are you looking to get away with not paying for energy you have used?

Surely EDF have a duty to avoid their customer getting into debt and to adjust direct debts in a timely manner rather than just demanding payment. 

And what about you?    What efforts did you make to pay to ensure that you are budgeting for the energy you used?

Suppliers use models and often estimates (even with a smart meter), and their modelling is rarely accurate.  If you leave it to them to control your budgeting then you will not get an optimal outcome and leave yourself at risk of this sort of thing.      Sometimes people use more than the modelling expects. Sometimes less.

Timeline of account balance (as informed by EDF):

• Sept 2022: In credit by £1,633.54

• 10 Oct 2022: Refund sent of £872.28 (balance in credit of £761.26)

• 21 Oct 2022: In debit £988.24

• 14 Nov 2022: In debit £850.24 

• 12 Dec 2022: In debit £672.24

• 12 Jan 2023: In debit £1,414.42

• 14 Feb 2023: In debit £1,756.78

• 31 May 2023: Bill rec'd saying we owe £2,229.98 immediately on 16 June 2023. 

When in that timeline were you billed?  it looks like January but then it gets worse in Feb which you would not expect as your use wouldn't be included unless another bill was generated.

EDF's system records payments made as a running balance but they do not deduct your actual use until they trigger a bill.   So, being £1633.54 in credit in September doesn't actually mean you were in credit.       Taking a big refund just before the cold period starts is a risk of leaving yourself short by May (the point you would aim to be around £0.

That refund in October did some damage.  It should have been retained on the account.  And its possible that the direct debit was based on it being retained on the account and effectively, you have taken an interest-free loan from the supplier.

victor2

Helen1234567 said:

...
Timeline of account balance (as informed by EDF):

• Sept 2022: In credit by £1,633.54
• 10 Oct 2022: Refund sent of £872.28 (balance in credit of £761.26)
• 21 Oct 2022: In debit £988.24
• 14 Nov 2022: In debit £850.24 
• 12 Dec 2022: In debit £672.24
• 12 Jan 2023: In debit £1,414.42
• 14 Feb 2023: In debit £1,756.78
• 31 May 2023: Bill rec'd saying we owe £2,229.98 immediately on 16 June 2023. 

EDF can't tell me why there was a swing of £1,750 in the 11 days between 10.10.22 and 21.10.22.
...

How was the refund in October 2022 calculated?

Was a 6 monthly bill generated in October 2022? EDF do only normally bill every six months, but show the accumulated DD payments in between, or was a bill generated to calculate how much they could refund you?

Either way, the large debit balance of 21/10/22 doesn't seem to make sense.

From 21/10/22 to 14/11/22 a credit of £138 was applied - your DD payment?

From 14/11/22 to 12/1/23 a credit of £178 was applied - an increased DD payment?

Then a bill was generated in January 2023, with usage since the last bill of £742.18 plus the DD payments made above?

After that the debit balance keeps increasing, which doesn't make sense unless they switched your account to monthly billing?

Could you show a suitably redacted copy of the statements you have, or can get from your online account (if you can still access it)?

P.S. Welcome to the forum!

greyteam1959

As others have said.
Get some meter readings posted or everybody is just guessing at what is going on.

markin

Are the readings actual or estimated?

turnitround

Im sorry but it seems obvious to me that you were going to end up owing a considerable sum when you left the property. The DD would have taken into consideration that the summer months were coming when usage would be lower and therefore you would catch up a bit.

Every month during the winter months you would have been using more energy than you were paying for.  It seems wrong to blame the company when you yourself could see you were getting further behind. Perhaps, knowing you were going to be hit with this bill it would have been better to take responsibility and prepare for it. 

I can understand the query regarding the Feb figures but looking at your December usage (if these readings are correct) alarm bells should have been ringing.