Advice - Parents and care fees... options?

Mark_H_3

Hi all,

Based on the following, what should we do with the house to protect assets from care fees?

• My parents have a small 3 bed terraced house (circa £250k), so IHT is not an issue.
• My Mother is classed as severely disabled - paralysed down one side due to two cerebral embolisms when young
• My mother receives disibility allowance.
• The house is in my father's name only 
• My father is 82 and my mother is 80
• My mother will most likely outlive my father, as she is in better health, despite the above.
• My mother will not be able to live on her own, without care.  If she falls, and does regularly, she cannot get up, and needs general day to day help, which my father does now, as her designated carer.

If my father dies first, my mother will need some sort of care, not sure what that would be... care home, or home visits multiple times per day, with 24 hours call out which she has now, via a home line system.  

If my father transfers the house into my name now, will the Local Authority (LA) deem that we have done it to avoid care home fees, and most likely force us to sell the house and use it as part of the estate to pay care home fees.

If my father leaves the house to me (with my mothers consent) in his will, can the LA prevent that and use that as an asset if she has to go into care home?

My understanding is that getting into a care home is not so straightforward these days, as there is a shortage and very expensive.  I believe the LA prefers you to stay in your own home, with care...?

I would appreciate any advice/guidance.

Many thanks,
Jane

Flugelhorn

transferring the property into your name but parents still living there will probably mean it is still seen as their asset and an effort at deliberate deprivation of assets.

MEM62

Mark_H_3 said:

Hi all,

Based on the following, what should we do with the house to protect assets from care fees?

Protect the assets for what purpose? 

The house is an asset that may allow your parents some choice over where they spend their last days and what level of care they receive.  If they are in the twilight of their years and need care, then they need care - they don't need a house.    

Mojisola

Mark_H_3 said:

Based on the following, what should we do with the house to protect assets from care fees?

• My parents have a small 3 bed terraced house (circa £250k), so IHT is not an issue.
• My Mother is classed as severely disabled - paralysed down one side due to two cerebral embolisms when young
• My mother receives disibility allowance.
• The house is in my father's name only 
• My father is 82 and my mother is 80
• My mother will most likely outlive my father, as she is in better health, despite the above.
• My mother will not be able to live on her own, without care.  If she falls, and does regularly, she cannot get up, and needs general day to day help, which my father does now, as her designated carer.

If my father dies first, my mother will need some sort of care, not sure what that would be... care home, or home visits multiple times per day, with 24 hours call out which she has now, via a home line system. 

Why don't you want your mother to have enough financial assets to be given the best care for her needs?

I was so relieved that we had the money from Dad's house to get him into the right care home for him - I don't know how we would have coped but I couldn't have let him go into the only option he had with only council funding.

comeandgo

Mojisola said:

Mark_H_3 said:

Based on the following, what should we do with the house to protect assets from care fees?

• My parents have a small 3 bed terraced house (circa £250k), so IHT is not an issue.
• My Mother is classed as severely disabled - paralysed down one side due to two cerebral embolisms when young
• My mother receives disibility allowance.
• The house is in my father's name only 
• My father is 82 and my mother is 80
• My mother will most likely outlive my father, as she is in better health, despite the above.
• My mother will not be able to live on her own, without care.  If she falls, and does regularly, she cannot get up, and needs general day to day help, which my father does now, as her designated carer.

If my father dies first, my mother will need some sort of care, not sure what that would be... care home, or home visits multiple times per day, with 24 hours call out which she has now, via a home line system. 

Why don't you want your mother to have enough financial assets to be given the best care for her needs?

I was so relieved that we had the money from Dad's house to get him into the right care home for him - I don't know how we would have coped but I couldn't have let him go into the only option he had with only council funding.

Agree with above, to try and keep your mums money for yourself rather than fund her ailing health care, well.

Mark_H_3

The assets are all theirs!  We (Including my mother) want to have choice on how that is spent! It's not about me having the money, it's about giving them choices! 

I love the way you assume the worst! 

HappyHarry

Whilst I am not one that encourages trying to avoid care fees there are options here.

The property is only in your father’s name. If something were to happen to your father, then the property will be passed to the beneficiaries mentioned in his will. Do you know what this says, and is it what you all want?

It is not currently your mother’s property, and if it never has been and never will be then the Local Authority have no right to demand that this property is sold to pay for your mother’s care. 

If your father requires care, then this is very different, as he does own a property that could be sold to fund his care needs (although if your mother were still living at the property then it should be ignored as an asset).

lisyloo

HappyHarry said:

Whilst I am not one that encourages trying to avoid care fees there are options here.

The property is only in your father’s name. If something were to happen to your father, then the property will be passed to the beneficiaries mentioned in his will. Do you know what this says, and is it what you all want?

It is not currently your mother’s property, and if it never has been and never will be then the Local Authority have no right to demand that this property is sold to pay for your mother’s care. 

If your father requires care, then this is very different, as he does own a property that could be sold to fund his care needs (although if your mother were still living at the property then it should be ignored as an asset).

Are you sure that he can cut out a dependent adult?

LHW99

Do they both have LPA's in place? If they have mental capacity this should be done, as once capacity is lost things get more expensive and entail more admin as you would have to deal with the Court of Protection.

lisyloo

Mark_H_3 said:

The assets are all theirs!  We (Including my mother) want to have choice on how that is spent! It's not about me having the money, it's about giving them choices! 

I love the way you assume the worst! 

You will have choices - and it's better planned in advance if it can be.
Care in someone's home is usually preferred by both the recipient and for economic reasons up to 4 times a day.
If someone is mentally competent then there are all sorts of solutions that can be put in place for medication, food, water etc.
If someone cannot safely get around, get a drink, get medication or make safe decisions (for example try to get out of bed when unable or put foil in the microwave etc.) then they either need 24/7 care at home or to go into a care home.

You will have the choice.
Does anyone have power attorney for your mother and father.
If not then your should get this done ASAP.
They can hold it for each other (if both are capable) with replacement attorneys also named in case of their death.

But yes you can have the choice as to whether they stay at home with visits, have live-in carers or which care home they go to.

LPA takes months but this should be put in place ASAP if not already.
It is MUCH harder to do once someone has lost capacity and can't put it in place.

If the local authority are paying then the choices are limited economically but there are still choices. They are just constrained (very much) by finances.

So crucial question - does anyone have POA at the moment?

Mark_H_3

My mother does not want to go in home, and we will do everything we can to ensure that does not happen.  Hopefully via home care etc. My concern is that as soon as the LA get involved they dictate what that care looks like.  My parents don't have a lot of money, so won't be able to contribute, other than the only asset they have, which is their house.  I want to make sure they can't force her to sell the house and then put her in a LA care home.  Having her stay at home and them supporting would be the best option.... hence wanting to protect the house for her.  All assets are theirs and they can spend it however they want.  They have asked me to ask the question.... thanks