UKPC + DCB Legal + Macclesfield Superbowl = Are at it again!

Mar3485

B789 said:

Mar3485 said:

1. Lease Car - In response to my SAR I can see that the lease company was contacted, however, the information that has been supplied as part of the SAR is very minimal. It only offers my home address details and contract start and end date. Will this have any relevance to my defence?
2. Did I reveal my identity as part of my appeal? I only mentioned that I 'registered' my car on the keypad whilst in attendance at Superbowl. What would I say to a judge if he asked me if I was driving, I would say 'yes' because I was. I do mention that I was the driver as part of my defence is this okay?
3. I have contacted Macclesfield Superbowl via email. They have confirmed that a considerable amount of customers were issued with a PCN. They have also advised that all signs have been removed and that the parking scheme is no longer in place because of the issues it caused. Should I include this in my defence? 
4. I will contact my local MP but I am not holding out for a response. 
5. In the SAR UKPC has pointed out that PDT data isn't stored. I am assuming this means that VRN from the keypad isn't saved. Does this then become a 'he said, she said' argument in court?
6. As mentioned above, all the signage at Macclesfield Superbowl has been removed. I can find images of the signage online, should this form part of my defence?
7. I have compiled my defence using the template supplied in this forum. If I remove personal details would anyone be able to sanity check it for me?

Did you receive an NtH at any stage? You say your SAR revealed that the hire company had contacted the PPC, probably transferring liability to you, as the Hirer but did the PPC comply with the requirements of PoFA and include all the necessary document copies with the NtH? You are not being very clear about what you have received from the PPC which makes it difficult to assist you.

If the NtH fails PoFA compliance then, if you've given away the fact that you were the driver, you become liable. If you haven't, then they can't transfer liability.

Your defence is only in answer to the PoC on the claim and we know that they are woefully inadequate from DCB Legal. What the PPC mean about PDT data is that they are not obliged to give it to you as a SAR is only about your personal data.

Just post the paragraphs that you have changed/added from the template defence. You. shouldn't be removing any of the paragraphs that follow on from #4

Thank you for the above. I will go away and carry out further research on the hirer part of my questions so you can assist me. Lots of information to process and make sure I understand it all. It's becoming very overwhelming. 

KeithP

Mar3485 said:

1. What is the best way to submit my defence by email or post? I've read conflicting advice. One post recommends sending it via post because the online option breaks the formatting and makes it harder for the judge to read.
   

Last Sunday I wrote on your thread...

KeithP said:

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Mar3485

B789 said:

Mar3485 said:

1. What is the best way to submit my defence by email or post? I've read conflicting advice. One post recommends sending it via post because the online option breaks the formatting and makes it harder for the judge to read. 
   

You certainly didn't get that advice from this forum so you may want to decide where your best advice is coming from. Why would emailing your defence as a pfd attachment break any formatting? Whoever is giving you that advice needs pointing to this forum telling to go get an education. Have you even read the second post in the Newbies/FAQ thread?

Hello, thanks for the reply. I knew I had seen it somewhere. The advice on posting over email is in point three of Bargepole's Court Claim Procedure post. 

"I recommend printing and posting (registered) to Northampton, trying to fit it in the online box destroys the formatting, and makes it hard for the Judge to read."

I am going to email my defence using the advice on how to submit it via email from Coupon-mad. A very handy guide, thank you!

Mar3485

Fruitcake said:

Did you reveal the driver's identity to UKPC when you appealed? For example, did you say, I parked or I drove, or anything similar?
Even if you didn't, but you were the driver, what will you do if a judge asks if you were driving?

This could and should have been won at PoPLA, but that can't now be helped.

Plan A is still a complaint to the landowner and your MP, and it's never too late to do so.

As for your defence, you paid, their machines were faulty, you are a witness to this fact, indeed you are the only witness to the fact that the machine was faulty. The machine failure caused a frustration of contract, no parking terms were breached or in the alternative, the contract was void for impossibility because it was impossible for you to comply with parking terms due to the faulty pay machine.
In addition, UKPC signs are inadequate and incapable for forming a contract because the charge on the signs is in tiny font and therefore not brought to the attention of the motorist. Lord Denning's "red hand rule" applies.

Get photos of the site and signage to back this up at the witness statement stage later in the court process.

Did you reveal the driver's identity to UKPC when you appealed?
I said the following when appealing my PCN:

"Hi there - I recently received a parking charge from you at Superbowl Macclesfield. I did register my vehicle as we were in attendance at the venue. I have evidence to prove this in the form of a bank statement and I have attached this for your information."

I'm not sure I understand your question on '...what will you do if a judge asks if you were driving?'. I was the driver.

Get photos of the site and signage to back this up at the witness statement stage later in the court process.
All signage has been removed. UKPC no longer operate the parking at Macclesfield Superbowl.

Mar3485

B789 said:

Mar3485 said:

1. Lease Car - In response to my SAR I can see that the lease company was contacted, however, the information that has been supplied as part of the SAR is very minimal. It only offers my home address details and contract start and end date. Will this have any relevance to my defence?
2. Did I reveal my identity as part of my appeal? I only mentioned that I 'registered' my car on the keypad whilst in attendance at Superbowl. What would I say to a judge if he asked me if I was driving, I would say 'yes' because I was. I do mention that I was the driver as part of my defence is this okay?
3. I have contacted Macclesfield Superbowl via email. They have confirmed that a considerable amount of customers were issued with a PCN. They have also advised that all signs have been removed and that the parking scheme is no longer in place because of the issues it caused. Should I include this in my defence? 
4. I will contact my local MP but I am not holding out for a response. 
5. In the SAR UKPC has pointed out that PDT 
6. isn't stored. I am assuming this means that VRN from the keypad isn't saved. Does this then become a 'he said, she said' argument in court?
7. As mentioned above, all the signage at Macclesfield Superbowl has been removed. I can find images of the signage online, should this form part of my defence?
8. I have compiled my defence using the template supplied in this forum. If I remove personal details would anyone be able to sanity check it for me?

Did you receive an NtH at any stage? You say your SAR revealed that the hire company had contacted the PPC, probably transferring liability to you, as the Hirer but did the PPC comply with the requirements of PoFA and include all the necessary document copies with the NtH? You are not being very clear about what you have received from the PPC which makes it difficult to assist you.

If the NtH fails PoFA compliance then, if you've given away the fact that you were the driver, you become liable. If you haven't, then they can't transfer liability.

Your defence is only in answer to the PoC on the claim and we know that they are woefully inadequate from DCB Legal. What the PPC mean about PDT data is that they are not obliged to give it to you as a SAR is only about your personal data.

Just post the paragraphs that you have changed/added from the template defence. You. shouldn't be removing any of the paragraphs that follow on from #4

Hello!
I hope the below helps.

Did you receive an NtH at any stage? You say your SAR revealed that the hire company had contacted the PPC, probably transferring liability to you, as the Hirer but did the PPC comply with the requirements of PoFA and include all the necessary document copies with the NtH? You are not being very clear about what you have received from the PPC which makes it difficult to assist you.

I received a PCN from UKPC. The document doesn't specifically say NtH anywhere on it but the wording within the PCN is as follows "We are writing to you because you were the Hirer (your information has been supplied to us by the registered keeper)...".  

Information received in my SAR includes:

• Four images (two of my car and two of my VRN)
• Copy of PCN sent to the lease company asking for my details
• Copy of lease company's reply (VRN, my contact information and contract start and end date)
• Copy of PCN sent to me as the hirer
• My appeal
• Response to my appeal asking for £15.
• Further correspondence from me offering evidence that I was parked legally.

If the NtH fails PoFA compliance then, if you've given away the fact that you were the driver, you become liable. If you haven't, then they can't transfer liability.
I have read schedule 4 and focused on paragraphs 13 and 14. P13 (2) (a)-(c) talks about documents being shared with the PPC but none of these have been offered in the SAR. From memory and checking all correspondence, at no point was I asked if I was the driver.

Mar3485

Once again thank you so much for your support and guidance in relation to this matter. I have drafted my defence and I think it is ready to be added to the helpful template shared in the forum. I would appreciate a quick sanity check if that is okay. 

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the hirer of the vehicle and driving.

3. The Defendant did attend Superbowl Macclesfield, Lyme Green, Macclesfield SK11 0TB on 23rd March 2019 as a paying customer. The Defendant did not see any signs or instructions within the carpark or on entering Superbowl. The Defendant was informed by a member of staff to enter the VRN on an electronic keypad within Superbowl.

4. The Defendant entered the car registration details BT68 NTV. The Defendant was not informed that there had been a system or inputting error on entering the VRM nor was a receipt option offered and subsequently received a PCN as the hirer of the vehicle. 

5. On receipt of the PCN, the defendant was verbally instructed by a staff member of Superbowl to appeal and provide a copy of the Defendant’s bank statement as evidence of their attendance. CCTV footage and evidence of inputting the VRN on the day was requested but the Defendant was informed this was not available or necessary.

6. An appeal was submitted with evidence to UKPC on-line.

7. UKPC confirmed receipt of the on-line appeal 10th June 2019.

Fruitcake

Unfortunately Google Streetview isn't much help other than to show there were no signs present in 2017.

patient_dream

Mar3485 said:

Fruitcake said:

Did you reveal the driver's identity to UKPC when you appealed? For example, did you say, I parked or I drove, or anything similar?
Even if you didn't, but you were the driver, what will you do if a judge asks if you were driving?

This could and should have been won at PoPLA, but that can't now be helped.

Plan A is still a complaint to the landowner and your MP, and it's never too late to do so.

As for your defence, you paid, their machines were faulty, you are a witness to this fact, indeed you are the only witness to the fact that the machine was faulty. The machine failure caused a frustration of contract, no parking terms were breached or in the alternative, the contract was void for impossibility because it was impossible for you to comply with parking terms due to the faulty pay machine.
In addition, UKPC signs are inadequate and incapable for forming a contract because the charge on the signs is in tiny font and therefore not brought to the attention of the motorist. Lord Denning's "red hand rule" applies.

Get photos of the site and signage to back this up at the witness statement stage later in the court process.

Did you reveal the driver's identity to UKPC when you appealed?

Get photos of the site and signage to back this up at the witness statement stage later in the court process.
All signage has been removed. UKPC no longer operate the parking at Macclesfield Superbowl.

So, UKPC were probably sacked, no surprise

Do some detective work, find out why they were sacked because you will not be alone

And you probably KNOW about DCBL .... and how they have been wasting the courts time with very dodgy claims .... just like yours 

Coupon-mad

You don't need 5. 6 and 7 about appealing.   From 5 onwards just copy from the defence by @Johny86.

KeithP

patient_dream said:

Mar3485 said:UKPC were probably sacked, no surprise

Do some detective work, find out why they were sacked...

A couple of newspaper articles from 2020...

Mum vows to fight parking fine 'disgrace' at Macclesfield Superbowl

Bowling centre strikes out parking scheme