After 3 years tenancy landlord suddenly claiming a payment didn't arrive -my bank says it did arrive

simon_or

All letting agents have to sign up to one of 2 or 3 independent dispute resolution schemes. The largest one is TPO - The Property Ombudsman and that's often the one most lettings are signed up to. If you look on their website homepage, it should usually say this.

doodling

Hi,

Artemis23 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Artemis23 said:

propertyrental said:

Artemis23 said:

theartfullodger said:

i assume you mean you pay rent to  agent. Doesn't mean they are your landlord.

who/what is named as landlord on your tenancy agreement?  Agent or owner of the property?  (There are alternative positions)


Looking forward to your reply 

Best wishes. 

However, around a year ago this entire building was sold to an entirely different corporation, whose name does not appear on my tenancy agreement.  The new corporation has kept the same letting agent on as managing agents for the building. 

So the landlord listed on my tenancy agreement is no longer my landlord.  But when the sale happened I was advised to continue paying rent to the same bank account I've always paid rent to.

When the sale happened, did you receive a S3 Notice 

No they did not send me a notice.  There is a letter taped to the inside of the lift though that mentions that the building was sold and now has a new owner. 

The latter taped to the lift might constitute such a notice, even if it doesn't, whilst that isn't great, the absence of such a notice doesn't really make much difference.  That law is enforced by local councils who usually have other things to do and the enforcement wouldn't benefit you as a tenant.

If the landlord decided to sue you and your defence included the fact that they hadn't notified you that they were your new landlord then I expect that a court would be quite happy for them to service a notice as part of their case so it doesn't provide any kind of legal defence.

The only time it would be an issue is if you are planning to sue your landlord, in which case, if the letter on the lift wasn't a valid notice then you would have the option of suing both your current and your previous landlord jointly.

Today the letting agent has sent me this by email:

“We are aware of your situation however, unfortunately our bank has confirmed we never received the payment.  Your rent remains outstanding on our end and requires urgent payment as it has now been over two months.

Please confirm when payment will be made?  If you are unable to pay this in full we can consider a payment plan to pay this off in instalments.”

Did you send something along the lines of what I wrote?  Ideally you'd refer back to that restating your position.

If not then your points are:

1. You have not provided me with any evidence that the payment has not arrived.

2. Without that evidence I cannot go back to my bank to resolve this issue.

3. Without resolving the issue an additional separate payment for April will not be made.

4. Unless evidence is provided by xx/xx/xx then a formal complaint will be made and followed up with an independent arbiter Ii.e. [relevant Ombudsman for your agent] as it is clearly unacceptable to all parties for this to continue as it is.

Hope that helps.

No point in complaining about harassment or anything like that at this stage.

K_S

Artemis23 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Artemis23 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Artemis23 said:

propertyrental said:

Artemis23 said:

theartfullodger said:

i assume you mean you pay rent to  agent. Doesn't mean they are your landlord.

who/what is named as landlord on your tenancy agreement?  Agent or owner of the property?  (There are alternative positions)


Looking forward to your reply 

Best wishes. 

However, around a year ago this entire building was sold to an entirely different corporation, whose name does not appear on my tenancy agreement.  The new corporation has kept the same letting agent on as managing agents for the building. 

So the landlord listed on my tenancy agreement is no longer my landlord.  But when the sale happened I was advised to continue paying rent to the same bank account I've always paid rent to.

When the sale happened, did you receive a S3 Notice 

No they did not send me a notice.  There is a letter taped to the inside of the lift though that mentions that the building was sold and now has a new owner. 

The latter taped to the lift might constitute such a notice, even if it doesn't, whilst that isn't great, the absence of such a notice doesn't really make much difference.  That law is enforced by local councils who usually have other things to do and the enforcement wouldn't benefit you as a tenant.

If the landlord decided to sue you and your defence included the fact that they hadn't notified you that they were your new landlord then I expect that a court would be quite happy for them to service a notice as part of their case so it doesn't provide any kind of legal defence.

The only time it would be an issue is if you are planning to sue your landlord, in which case, if the letter on the lift wasn't a valid notice then you would have the option of suing both your current and your previous landlord jointly.

Today the letting agent has sent me this by email:

“We are aware of your situation however, unfortunately our bank has confirmed we never received the payment.  Your rent remains outstanding on our end and requires urgent payment as it has now been over two months.

Please confirm when payment will be made?  If you are unable to pay this in full we can consider a payment plan to pay this off in instalments.”

Just reply and say, my bank confirms it has been received as per all the correspondence previously sent. 
I recommend you take this up with your bank directly as I am not prepared to pay rent twice for the same period.

Does their email seem a bit much to you?  Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive here but I'm finding it a bit much.  It also makes me scared as to what happens if they claim July's payment or some other subsequent payment doesn't arrive?

@artemis23 You're absolutely right to be upset, I would be too if I'd gone through all this trouble to prove the payment had been made, shared proof and been communicating with them for all this while they keep labelling you as being in arrears when you aren't and talking about payment plans. And as you said, if it's an error on their end, what's to say this won't crop up again soon.

Imho it's time to make a formal complaint and take it from there to the Ombudsman if necessary. Hopefully you won't need to, but if you do, unlike the financial ombudsman, the property ombudsman are pretty quick, at least they were when I used them in 2021 in a dispute I had with a letting agent as a landlord. Do make mention of the fact that they're incorrectly labelling you as being in arrears and the stress and anxiety that it's causing you.

Good luck!

Artemis23

K_S said:

Artemis23 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Artemis23 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Artemis23 said:

propertyrental said:

Artemis23 said:

theartfullodger said:

i assume you mean you pay rent to  agent. Doesn't mean they are your landlord.

who/what is named as landlord on your tenancy agreement?  Agent or owner of the property?  (There are alternative positions)


Looking forward to your reply 

Best wishes. 

However, around a year ago this entire building was sold to an entirely different corporation, whose name does not appear on my tenancy agreement.  The new corporation has kept the same letting agent on as managing agents for the building. 

So the landlord listed on my tenancy agreement is no longer my landlord.  But when the sale happened I was advised to continue paying rent to the same bank account I've always paid rent to.

When the sale happened, did you receive a S3 Notice 

No they did not send me a notice.  There is a letter taped to the inside of the lift though that mentions that the building was sold and now has a new owner. 

The latter taped to the lift might constitute such a notice, even if it doesn't, whilst that isn't great, the absence of such a notice doesn't really make much difference.  That law is enforced by local councils who usually have other things to do and the enforcement wouldn't benefit you as a tenant.

If the landlord decided to sue you and your defence included the fact that they hadn't notified you that they were your new landlord then I expect that a court would be quite happy for them to service a notice as part of their case so it doesn't provide any kind of legal defence.

The only time it would be an issue is if you are planning to sue your landlord, in which case, if the letter on the lift wasn't a valid notice then you would have the option of suing both your current and your previous landlord jointly.

Today the letting agent has sent me this by email:

“We are aware of your situation however, unfortunately our bank has confirmed we never received the payment.  Your rent remains outstanding on our end and requires urgent payment as it has now been over two months.

Please confirm when payment will be made?  If you are unable to pay this in full we can consider a payment plan to pay this off in instalments.”

Just reply and say, my bank confirms it has been received as per all the correspondence previously sent. 
I recommend you take this up with your bank directly as I am not prepared to pay rent twice for the same period.

Does their email seem a bit much to you?  Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive here but I'm finding it a bit much.  It also makes me scared as to what happens if they claim July's payment or some other subsequent payment doesn't arrive?

@artemis23 You're absolutely right to be upset, I would be too if I'd gone through all this trouble to prove the payment had been made, shared proof and been communicating with them for all this while they keep labelling you as being in arrears when you aren't and talking about payment plans. And as you said, if it's an error on their end, what's to say this won't crop up again soon.

Imho it's time to make a formal complaint and take it from there to the Ombudsman if necessary. Hopefully you won't need to, but if you do, unlike the financial ombudsman, the property ombudsman are pretty quick, at least they were when I used them in 2021 in a dispute I had with a letting agent as a landlord. Do make mention of the fact that they're incorrectly labelling you as being in arrears and the stress and anxiety that it's causing you.

Good luck!

i sent the letting agent the letter a fellow forumite here advised me to send.  They've completely ignored my letter and instead they've sent me a text message demanding payment, and the following email from yet another member of their staff:

"Unfortunately, we are left we no alternative other than to recommend legal action be taken by your landlord to recover the rent arrears and to obtain possession of the property. This process can be distressing to all parties concerned and as previously advised will incur further costs for you in addition to the outstanding debt.

You should consider your position very carefully as this action can result in a County Court Judgement against you which can affect your credit rating and future financial referencing position.

To avoid this course of action please ensure that full payment is made immediately. Our bank details are:"

housebuyer143

Artemis23 said:

K_S said:

Artemis23 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Artemis23 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Artemis23 said:

propertyrental said:

Artemis23 said:

theartfullodger said:

i assume you mean you pay rent to  agent. Doesn't mean they are your landlord.

who/what is named as landlord on your tenancy agreement?  Agent or owner of the property?  (There are alternative positions)


Looking forward to your reply 

Best wishes. 

However, around a year ago this entire building was sold to an entirely different corporation, whose name does not appear on my tenancy agreement.  The new corporation has kept the same letting agent on as managing agents for the building. 

So the landlord listed on my tenancy agreement is no longer my landlord.  But when the sale happened I was advised to continue paying rent to the same bank account I've always paid rent to.

When the sale happened, did you receive a S3 Notice 

No they did not send me a notice.  There is a letter taped to the inside of the lift though that mentions that the building was sold and now has a new owner. 

The latter taped to the lift might constitute such a notice, even if it doesn't, whilst that isn't great, the absence of such a notice doesn't really make much difference.  That law is enforced by local councils who usually have other things to do and the enforcement wouldn't benefit you as a tenant.

If the landlord decided to sue you and your defence included the fact that they hadn't notified you that they were your new landlord then I expect that a court would be quite happy for them to service a notice as part of their case so it doesn't provide any kind of legal defence.

The only time it would be an issue is if you are planning to sue your landlord, in which case, if the letter on the lift wasn't a valid notice then you would have the option of suing both your current and your previous landlord jointly.

Today the letting agent has sent me this by email:

“We are aware of your situation however, unfortunately our bank has confirmed we never received the payment.  Your rent remains outstanding on our end and requires urgent payment as it has now been over two months.

Please confirm when payment will be made?  If you are unable to pay this in full we can consider a payment plan to pay this off in instalments.”

Just reply and say, my bank confirms it has been received as per all the correspondence previously sent. 
I recommend you take this up with your bank directly as I am not prepared to pay rent twice for the same period.

Does their email seem a bit much to you?  Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive here but I'm finding it a bit much.  It also makes me scared as to what happens if they claim July's payment or some other subsequent payment doesn't arrive?

@artemis23 You're absolutely right to be upset, I would be too if I'd gone through all this trouble to prove the payment had been made, shared proof and been communicating with them for all this while they keep labelling you as being in arrears when you aren't and talking about payment plans. And as you said, if it's an error on their end, what's to say this won't crop up again soon.

Imho it's time to make a formal complaint and take it from there to the Ombudsman if necessary. Hopefully you won't need to, but if you do, unlike the financial ombudsman, the property ombudsman are pretty quick, at least they were when I used them in 2021 in a dispute I had with a letting agent as a landlord. Do make mention of the fact that they're incorrectly labelling you as being in arrears and the stress and anxiety that it's causing you.

Good luck!

i sent the letting agent the letter a fellow forumite here advised me to send.  They've completely ignored my letter and instead they've sent me a text message demanding payment, and the following email from yet another member of their staff:

"Unfortunately, we are left we no alternative other than to recommend legal action be taken by your landlord to recover the rent arrears and to obtain possession of the property. This process can be distressing to all parties concerned and as previously advised will incur further costs for you in addition to the outstanding debt.

You should consider your position very carefully as this action can result in a County Court Judgement against you which can affect your credit rating and future financial referencing position.

To avoid this course of action please ensure that full payment is made immediately. Our bank details are:"

these honestly just sound like copy and paste automated letters. Ignore it and if you sent your letter as a formal complaint you can expect a response within the timescales given in their complaints procedure. If you haven't then I recommend you send it again headed "formal complaint".

propertyrental

Artemis23 said:

K_S said:

Artemis23 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Artemis23 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Artemis23 said:

propertyrental said:

Artemis23 said:

theartfullodger said:

i assume you mean you pay rent to  agent. Doesn't mean they are your landlord.

who/what is named as landlord on your tenancy agreement?  Agent or owner of the property?  (There are alternative positions)


Looking forward to your reply 

Best wishes. 

However, around a year ago this entire building was sold to an entirely different corporation, whose name does not appear on my tenancy agreement.  The new corporation has kept the same letting agent on as managing agents for the building. 

So the landlord listed on my tenancy agreement is no longer my landlord.  But when the sale happened I was advised to continue paying rent to the same bank account I've always paid rent to.

When the sale happened, did you receive a S3 Notice 

No they did not send me a notice.  There is a letter taped to the inside of the lift though that mentions that the building was sold and now has a new owner. 

The latter taped to the lift might constitute such a notice, even if it doesn't, whilst that isn't great, the absence of such a notice doesn't really make much difference.  That law is enforced by local councils who usually have other things to do and the enforcement wouldn't benefit you as a tenant.

If the landlord decided to sue you and your defence included the fact that they hadn't notified you that they were your new landlord then I expect that a court would be quite happy for them to service a notice as part of their case so it doesn't provide any kind of legal defence.

The only time it would be an issue is if you are planning to sue your landlord, in which case, if the letter on the lift wasn't a valid notice then you would have the option of suing both your current and your previous landlord jointly.

Today the letting agent has sent me this by email:

“We are aware of your situation however, unfortunately our bank has confirmed we never received the payment.  Your rent remains outstanding on our end and requires urgent payment as it has now been over two months.

Please confirm when payment will be made?  If you are unable to pay this in full we can consider a payment plan to pay this off in instalments.”

Just reply and say, my bank confirms it has been received as per all the correspondence previously sent. 
I recommend you take this up with your bank directly as I am not prepared to pay rent twice for the same period.

Does their email seem a bit much to you?  Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive here but I'm finding it a bit much.  It also makes me scared as to what happens if they claim July's payment or some other subsequent payment doesn't arrive?

@artemis23 You're absolutely right to be upset, I would be too if I'd gone through all this trouble to prove the payment had been made, shared proof and been communicating with them for all this while they keep labelling you as being in arrears when you aren't and talking about payment plans. And as you said, if it's an error on their end, what's to say this won't crop up again soon.

Imho it's time to make a formal complaint and take it from there to the Ombudsman if necessary. Hopefully you won't need to, but if you do, unlike the financial ombudsman, the property ombudsman are pretty quick, at least they were when I used them in 2021 in a dispute I had with a letting agent as a landlord. Do make mention of the fact that they're incorrectly labelling you as being in arrears and the stress and anxiety that it's causing you.

Good luck!

"Unfortunately, we are left we no alternative other than to recommend legal action be taken by your landlord to recover the rent arrears and to obtain possession of the property. This process can be distressing to all parties concerned
Agreed
and as previously advised will incur further costs for you in addition to the outstanding debt.
That assumes they win in court which seems highly unlikely. More likely they (or rather the landlord) will incur additional costs.

You should consider your position very carefully as this action can result in a County Court Judgement against you which can affect your credit rating and future financial referencing position.

* again, assumes they win, but

* no - credit ratings are only affected a) if you lose in court and b) you still don't pay what the court orders. If you lose, and pay, there is no affect on your credit rating.

They are either ignorant, or deliberately scaremongering.

To avoid this course of action please ensure that full payment is made immediately. Our bank details are:"

I'd suggest referral to the relevant Property Ombudsman, 

The approved redress schemes are:

• The Property Ombudsman Limited
• Property Redress Scheme

https://www.gov.uk/redress-scheme-estate-agencies

doodling

Hi,

I agree with others, at this point I would start a more formal process.

Firstly, have you been sending all communications to the address provided "for the serving of notices" as specified in the Tenancy Agreement, in the form specified?  For example, some tenancy agreements might expect communications in writing rather than email (that is the default if other communications methods are not specified).  It isn't a problem if you haven't been following the Tenancy Agreement for previous communications but if you haven't then when you write with your formal complaint then you will need to include all the evidence you have previously supplied by other means.

Write to the agency stating that it is a formal complaint and that you want them to further investigate what has happened to your money because you are certain that you have paid.  State that they have 14 days to provide an acceptable response (either to admit their error or provide specific confirmation from their bank that the money has not arrived) and that after that time you will be escalating the matter to the applicable redress scheme.

Don't worry about the threat of court proceedings.  They are required to provide you with the evidence they propose to use in court as part of their claim - that will either include the evidence that they have not been paid (in which case you can use it to follow up with your bank) or it won't (in which case the landlord will lose the case).

Hopefully, when the agent tells the landlord that they have to take you to court (the agent can't do on their behalf), the landlord will look at the evidence and ask the agent some probing questions.

Artemis23

doodling said:

Hi,

I agree with others, at this point I would start a more formal process.

Firstly, have you been sending all communications to the address provided "for the serving of notices" as specified in the Tenancy Agreement, in the form specified?  For example, some tenancy agreements might expect communications in writing rather than email (that is the default if other communications methods are not specified).  It isn't a problem if you haven't been following the Tenancy Agreement for previous communications but if you haven't then when you write with your formal complaint then you will need to include all the evidence you have previously supplied by other means.

Write to the agency stating that it is a formal complaint and that you want them to further investigate what has happened to your money because you are certain that you have paid.  State that they have 14 days to provide an acceptable response (either to admit their error or provide specific confirmation from their bank that the money has not arrived) and that after that time you will be escalating the matter to the applicable redress scheme.

Don't worry about the threat of court proceedings.  They are required to provide you with the evidence they propose to use in court as part of their claim - that will either include the evidence that they have not been paid (in which case you can use it to follow up with your bank) or it won't (in which case the landlord will lose the case).

Hopefully, when the agent tells the landlord that they have to take you to court (the agent can't do on their behalf), the landlord will look at the evidence and ask the agent some probing questions.

Just wanted to update you that the letting agency has now been fired by the landlord. I also got put in touch with a group of others who rent in this same building and at least half a dozen of them so far have said they had issues with the letting agency claiming not to have received payments. 

HampshireH

Artemis23 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

I agree with others, at this point I would start a more formal process.

Firstly, have you been sending all communications to the address provided "for the serving of notices" as specified in the Tenancy Agreement, in the form specified?  For example, some tenancy agreements might expect communications in writing rather than email (that is the default if other communications methods are not specified).  It isn't a problem if you haven't been following the Tenancy Agreement for previous communications but if you haven't then when you write with your formal complaint then you will need to include all the evidence you have previously supplied by other means.

Write to the agency stating that it is a formal complaint and that you want them to further investigate what has happened to your money because you are certain that you have paid.  State that they have 14 days to provide an acceptable response (either to admit their error or provide specific confirmation from their bank that the money has not arrived) and that after that time you will be escalating the matter to the applicable redress scheme.

Don't worry about the threat of court proceedings.  They are required to provide you with the evidence they propose to use in court as part of their claim - that will either include the evidence that they have not been paid (in which case you can use it to follow up with your bank) or it won't (in which case the landlord will lose the case).

Hopefully, when the agent tells the landlord that they have to take you to court (the agent can't do on their behalf), the landlord will look at the evidence and ask the agent some probing questions.

Just wanted to update you that the letting agency has now been fired by the landlord. I also got put in touch with a group of others who rent in this same building and at least half a dozen of them so far have said they had issues with the letting agency claiming not to have received payments. 

Interesting development. Thankyou for updating . So did the landlord ever receive the payment you made? 

eddddy

Artemis23 said:

Just wanted to update you that the letting agency has now been fired by the landlord. I also got put in touch with a group of others who rent in this same building and at least half a dozen of them so far have said they had issues with the letting agency claiming not to have received payments. 

That sounds like good news!

However, the landlord will probably hire a new letting agent - and the existing account info will be handed over to the new letting agent.

That's because the new letting agent needs to know who has paid their rent, who is in arrears and needs to be chased, etc.,


So the existing account info might still say that you have missed a payment, so the new letting agent might start chasing you.

So be prepared to show the new letting agent your bank statements, your trace letter from your bank etc. And hopefully, the new agent will actually take notice of what you're telling them, and correct their account information.