Is there a way to get a stolen/lost iPad back to its owner?

[Deleted User]

prowla said:

outtatune said:

prowla said:

GDB2222 said:

I found an apple tracker in our local park. When I checked it with NFC, it gave me a phone number to ring, and we eventually returned it. It had been attached to their dog. They still had the dog, and they were pleased to get the tracker back.

With your ipad, it may have belonged to someone who died, say. The heirs didn't have the passcode. They didn't have the receipt, etc, so they couldn't get Apple to unlock it**. It was an old ipad, and they gave it away. They haven't set a return telephone number, because they don't want it back. It ended up in a car boot sale, where somebody optimistic paid £5 too much for it!

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Grey_Critic said:

GDB2222 said:

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Not having Apple products myself but the wife has an iPad that is registered to youngest who bought it for her - BUT what would be the response from Apple if someone died and ledt ALL their personal effects to their partner/son/daughter - would they still refuse to assist?

All my electronics are listed together with passwords etc

Yep - I don't know its back story.

TBH, I just wanted it to run one app (for my home lights), so it was no biggie.

My gripe with Apple is that they have put a mechanism in place but don't have a structure to support it; some might say that it's a cynical ploy to reduce used sales.

The problem with being an optimist is that you are always going to be disappointed!

You mean that there are actually some people who wouldn't say that??

Haha - I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

I think, after years of them being my automatic choice, Apple are now relegated from my buying plans.

I seriously think you are both cynical for saying that  - and wrong ...

Activation lock reduces the attraction for theft of an iPhone - a fairly important feature when walking around in public with a £600-£1000+ device.

I have some facts to back this up...

https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-leads-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/

https://appleinsider.com/articles/14/06/20/police-say-ios-7-activation-lock-is-significantly-reducing-thefts-of-apple-products

https://www.igeeksblog.com/apple-kill-switch-reduced-iphone-theft-worldwide/#:~:text=Since the implementation of the,and New York by 19%.

From the above link ... in 2022 Samsung are catching on....

"As theft of Samsung’s Android based devices which don’t include a kill switch rose by 51% in New York, Samsung has implemented for their top tier device, the S5, their own version of the kill switch."

My gripe with Apple is that they have put a mechanism in place but don't have a structure to support it; some might say that it's a cynical ploy to reduce used sales.

And why would it reduce second-hand sales?

If an Apple iPhone / iPad owner wants to sell their device, they have a choice of selling it locked for peanuts or taking 2 mins to deactivate it and sell it for the premium price that 2nd hand Apple products fetch.

There are plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device.

The ones that turn up for sale locked could be stolen and therefore shouldn't be bought as it is handling stolen goods.

If for one feel it is safer to own a lockable product.

GDB2222

People get knifed for their Rolex watches. If only Rolex had incorporated a deactivation system, the owners would be much safer. 

Personally, I’m pretty happy with my £15 watch…

prowla

[Deleted User] said:

prowla said:

outtatune said:

prowla said:

GDB2222 said:

I found an apple tracker in our local park. When I checked it with NFC, it gave me a phone number to ring, and we eventually returned it. It had been attached to their dog. They still had the dog, and they were pleased to get the tracker back.

With your ipad, it may have belonged to someone who died, say. The heirs didn't have the passcode. They didn't have the receipt, etc, so they couldn't get Apple to unlock it**. It was an old ipad, and they gave it away. They haven't set a return telephone number, because they don't want it back. It ended up in a car boot sale, where somebody optimistic paid £5 too much for it!

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Grey_Critic said:

GDB2222 said:

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Not having Apple products myself but the wife has an iPad that is registered to youngest who bought it for her - BUT what would be the response from Apple if someone died and ledt ALL their personal effects to their partner/son/daughter - would they still refuse to assist?

All my electronics are listed together with passwords etc

Yep - I don't know its back story.

TBH, I just wanted it to run one app (for my home lights), so it was no biggie.

My gripe with Apple is that they have put a mechanism in place but don't have a structure to support it; some might say that it's a cynical ploy to reduce used sales.

The problem with being an optimist is that you are always going to be disappointed!

You mean that there are actually some people who wouldn't say that??

Haha - I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

I think, after years of them being my automatic choice, Apple are now relegated from my buying plans.

I seriously think you are both cynical for saying that  - and wrong ...

Activation lock reduces the attraction for theft of an iPhone - a fairly important feature when walking around in public with a £600-£1000+ device.

I have some facts to back this up...

https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-leads-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/

https://appleinsider.com/articles/14/06/20/police-say-ios-7-activation-lock-is-significantly-reducing-thefts-of-apple-products

https://www.igeeksblog.com/apple-kill-switch-reduced-iphone-theft-worldwide/#:~:text=Since the implementation of the,and New York by 19%.

From the above link ... in 2022 Samsung are catching on....

"As theft of Samsung’s Android based devices which don’t include a kill switch rose by 51% in New York, Samsung has implemented for their top tier device, the S5, their own version of the kill switch."

My gripe with Apple is that they have put a mechanism in place but don't have a structure to support it; some might say that it's a cynical ploy to reduce used sales.

And why would it reduce second-hand sales?

If an Apple iPhone / iPad owner wants to sell their device, they have a choice of selling it locked for peanuts or taking 2 mins to deactivate it and sell it for the premium price that 2nd hand Apple products fetch.

There are plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device.

The ones that turn up for sale locked could be stolen and therefore shouldn't be bought as it is handling stolen goods.

If for one feel it is safer to own a lockable product.

Well, you may call my mistrust of Apple's motives "cynical", but I prefer to think of it as healthy scepticism:

• I think Apple will use any trick to "encourage" sales; examples are the well-documented battery life trick and their use of proprietary connectors which they change periodically.
• They also fudge the difference between an item reported as stolen (with crime reference number) and simply someone hasn't de-registered it (forgot, couldn't be bothered, switched brands and dropped their Apple account, estate sale, house clearance, etc.); they're happy to just have them all bricked so they're no good for resale.
• Regarding "plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device" - that is incorrect: as you point out, they don't know/care if it was actually stolen, but rather that it "could be"; therefore they are blocking things and so "reduce second-hand sales" based on a what-if.
• Their mechanism for tracking a lost/stolen device also requires you to have another iPhone/iPad to run their app; thereby meaning you have to buy more of their product.

My original point (and the thread title) was that it'd be good to be able to get the iPad back to its original owner if it was indeed stolen; however, the fact is that Apple don't have an infrastructure to support that.

[Deleted User]

Apple are not blocking anything - the owner of the device has chosen not to unlock it!

They also fudge the difference between an item reported as stolen (with crime reference number) and simply someone hasn't de-registered it (forgot, couldn't be bothered, switched brands and dropped their Apple account, estate sale, house clearance, etc.); they're happy to just have them all bricked so they're no good for resale.

If somebody presents a device to Apple for unlocking, how are Apple supposed to know whether it is stolen or not? Unless you have a matching purchase receipt that proves you are the owner of the device, there is nothing else that can absolutely prove a device is not stolen.

Crime reference numbers are useless, what if a thief brings it to an Apple shop for unlocking before it has been reported stolen? What if the owner doesn't know the serial number of the device they have reported as stolen?

Regarding "plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device" - that is incorrect: as you point out, they don't know/care if it was actually stolen, but rather that it "could be"; therefore they are blocking things and so "reduce second-hand sales" based on a what-if.

As I said, Apple aren't blocking the device, the legitimate owner of the device puts the actrivation lock on the device, not Apple and therefore the legit owner is responsible for removing it. How do you propose that Apple definitively determine whether a device presented to them has 100% not been stolen? Even the police can't confirm that information.

Their mechanism for tracking a lost/stolen device also requires you to have another iPhone/iPad to run their app; thereby meaning you have to buy more of their product.

Not it doesn't, can be done from any internet connected device through a browser.

My original point (and the thread title) was that it'd be good to be able to get the iPad back to its original owner if it was indeed stolen; however, the fact is that Apple don't have an infrastructure to support that.

It is not your responsibility to do that, you should check if a device is activation locked before purchasing, and if it is, don't buy it.

Plus it isn't always that simple, if the original owner made an insurance claim for it, then the device doesn't belong to them and instead now belongs to an insurance company. 

Anyway, only my opinion, not saying I'm right but I did quote many facts that point to a big reduction in the theft of Apple devices as a result of this and I'd say that is very hard to argue against.

All this can be 100% avoided if people stop buying locked devices and then all of the above is irrelevant.

prowla

[Deleted User] said:

Apple are not blocking anything - the owner of the device has chosen not to unlock it!

They also fudge the difference between an item reported as stolen (with crime reference number) and simply someone hasn't de-registered it (forgot, couldn't be bothered, switched brands and dropped their Apple account, estate sale, house clearance, etc.); they're happy to just have them all bricked so they're no good for resale.

If somebody presents a device to Apple for unlocking, how are Apple supposed to know whether it is stolen or not? Unless you have a matching purchase receipt that proves you are the owner of the device, there is nothing else that can absolutely prove a device is not stolen.

Crime reference numbers are useless, what if a thief brings it to an Apple shop for unlocking before it has been reported stolen? What if the owner doesn't know the serial number of the device they have reported as stolen?

Regarding "plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device" - that is incorrect: as you point out, they don't know/care if it was actually stolen, but rather that it "could be"; therefore they are blocking things and so "reduce second-hand sales" based on a what-if.

As I said, Apple aren't blocking the device, the legitimate owner of the device puts the actrivation lock on the device, not Apple and therefore the legit owner is responsible for removing it. How do you propose that Apple definitively determine whether a device presented to them has 100% not been stolen? Even the police can't confirm that information.

Their mechanism for tracking a lost/stolen device also requires you to have another iPhone/iPad to run their app; thereby meaning you have to buy more of their product.

Not it doesn't, can be done from any internet connected device through a browser.

My original point (and the thread title) was that it'd be good to be able to get the iPad back to its original owner if it was indeed stolen; however, the fact is that Apple don't have an infrastructure to support that.

It is not your responsibility to do that, you should check if a device is activation locked before purchasing, and if it is, don't buy it.

Plus it isn't always that simple, if the original owner made an insurance claim for it, then the device doesn't belong to them and instead now belongs to an insurance company. 

Anyway, only my opinion, not saying I'm right but I did quote many facts that point to a big reduction in the theft of Apple devices as a result of this and I'd say that is very hard to argue against.

All this can be 100% avoided if people stop buying locked devices and then all of the above is irrelevant.

The assertion is that there is a "legitimate" owner who has "chosen not to unlock it" is the flaw in the argument; I've already given examples which debunk that.

But your final sentence there neatly sums it up: if people stop buying locked (or unseen/battery-dead) devices, then the intent is that it'll translate to new sales.

[Deleted User]

prowla said:

[Deleted User] said:

Apple are not blocking anything - the owner of the device has chosen not to unlock it!

They also fudge the difference between an item reported as stolen (with crime reference number) and simply someone hasn't de-registered it (forgot, couldn't be bothered, switched brands and dropped their Apple account, estate sale, house clearance, etc.); they're happy to just have them all bricked so they're no good for resale.

If somebody presents a device to Apple for unlocking, how are Apple supposed to know whether it is stolen or not? Unless you have a matching purchase receipt that proves you are the owner of the device, there is nothing else that can absolutely prove a device is not stolen.

Crime reference numbers are useless, what if a thief brings it to an Apple shop for unlocking before it has been reported stolen? What if the owner doesn't know the serial number of the device they have reported as stolen?

Regarding "plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device" - that is incorrect: as you point out, they don't know/care if it was actually stolen, but rather that it "could be"; therefore they are blocking things and so "reduce second-hand sales" based on a what-if.

As I said, Apple aren't blocking the device, the legitimate owner of the device puts the actrivation lock on the device, not Apple and therefore the legit owner is responsible for removing it. How do you propose that Apple definitively determine whether a device presented to them has 100% not been stolen? Even the police can't confirm that information.

Their mechanism for tracking a lost/stolen device also requires you to have another iPhone/iPad to run their app; thereby meaning you have to buy more of their product.

Not it doesn't, can be done from any internet connected device through a browser.

My original point (and the thread title) was that it'd be good to be able to get the iPad back to its original owner if it was indeed stolen; however, the fact is that Apple don't have an infrastructure to support that.

It is not your responsibility to do that, you should check if a device is activation locked before purchasing, and if it is, don't buy it.

Plus it isn't always that simple, if the original owner made an insurance claim for it, then the device doesn't belong to them and instead now belongs to an insurance company. 

Anyway, only my opinion, not saying I'm right but I did quote many facts that point to a big reduction in the theft of Apple devices as a result of this and I'd say that is very hard to argue against.

All this can be 100% avoided if people stop buying locked devices and then all of the above is irrelevant.

The assertion is that there is a "legitimate" owner who has "chosen not to unlock it" is the flaw in the argument; I've already given examples which debunk that.

But your final sentence there neatly sums it up: if people stop buying locked (or unseen/battery-dead) devices, then the intent is that it'll translate to new sales.

Not quite, plenty of legitimate 2nd hand Apple devices, there isn’t a shortage and therefore locked devices do not translate to new sales. 

On the other hand stolen Apple devices probably do contribute to new sales as they are often replaced by insurance. Yet Apple have effectively reduced theft of those devices as I evidenced. 

I stand by my assertion that the legitimate owner has chosen for it not to be unlocked. Arrangements can be made for any circumstances including death if you wish your device to be unlocked.

Only dodgy or ignorant sellers will try to sell a locked Apple device. Unfortunately some buyers fall for this type of scam but the old “sold as seen” adage comes into play, if you are happy to hand over money for a device that your haven’t seen working then that is your risk and responsibility. 

prowla

[Deleted User] said:

prowla said:

[Deleted User] said:

Apple are not blocking anything - the owner of the device has chosen not to unlock it!

They also fudge the difference between an item reported as stolen (with crime reference number) and simply someone hasn't de-registered it (forgot, couldn't be bothered, switched brands and dropped their Apple account, estate sale, house clearance, etc.); they're happy to just have them all bricked so they're no good for resale.

If somebody presents a device to Apple for unlocking, how are Apple supposed to know whether it is stolen or not? Unless you have a matching purchase receipt that proves you are the owner of the device, there is nothing else that can absolutely prove a device is not stolen.

Crime reference numbers are useless, what if a thief brings it to an Apple shop for unlocking before it has been reported stolen? What if the owner doesn't know the serial number of the device they have reported as stolen?

Regarding "plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device" - that is incorrect: as you point out, they don't know/care if it was actually stolen, but rather that it "could be"; therefore they are blocking things and so "reduce second-hand sales" based on a what-if.

As I said, Apple aren't blocking the device, the legitimate owner of the device puts the actrivation lock on the device, not Apple and therefore the legit owner is responsible for removing it. How do you propose that Apple definitively determine whether a device presented to them has 100% not been stolen? Even the police can't confirm that information.

Their mechanism for tracking a lost/stolen device also requires you to have another iPhone/iPad to run their app; thereby meaning you have to buy more of their product.

Not it doesn't, can be done from any internet connected device through a browser.

My original point (and the thread title) was that it'd be good to be able to get the iPad back to its original owner if it was indeed stolen; however, the fact is that Apple don't have an infrastructure to support that.

It is not your responsibility to do that, you should check if a device is activation locked before purchasing, and if it is, don't buy it.

Plus it isn't always that simple, if the original owner made an insurance claim for it, then the device doesn't belong to them and instead now belongs to an insurance company. 

Anyway, only my opinion, not saying I'm right but I did quote many facts that point to a big reduction in the theft of Apple devices as a result of this and I'd say that is very hard to argue against.

All this can be 100% avoided if people stop buying locked devices and then all of the above is irrelevant.

The assertion is that there is a "legitimate" owner who has "chosen not to unlock it" is the flaw in the argument; I've already given examples which debunk that.

But your final sentence there neatly sums it up: if people stop buying locked (or unseen/battery-dead) devices, then the intent is that it'll translate to new sales.

Not quite, plenty of legitimate 2nd hand Apple devices, there isn’t a shortage and therefore locked devices do not translate to new sales. 

On the other hand stolen Apple devices probably do contribute to new sales as they are often replaced by insurance. Yet Apple have effectively reduced theft of those devices as I evidenced. 

I stand by my assertion that the legitimate owner has chosen for it not to be unlocked. Arrangements can be made for any circumstances including death if you wish your device to be unlocked.

Only dodgy or ignorant sellers will try to sell a locked Apple device. Unfortunately some buyers fall for this type of scam but the old “sold as seen” adage comes into play, if you are happy to hand over money for a device that your haven’t seen working then that is your risk and responsibility. 

As per the OP, it was only a fiver, so worth a punt.

Since Apple don't seem to provide a way of getting a device they've locked back to its owner, I'll probably jailbreak it for the fun of it and/or bin it.

DullGreyGuy

outtatune said:

prowla said:

GDB2222 said:

I found an apple tracker in our local park. When I checked it with NFC, it gave me a phone number to ring, and we eventually returned it. It had been attached to their dog. They still had the dog, and they were pleased to get the tracker back.

With your ipad, it may have belonged to someone who died, say. The heirs didn't have the passcode. They didn't have the receipt, etc, so they couldn't get Apple to unlock it**. It was an old ipad, and they gave it away. They haven't set a return telephone number, because they don't want it back. It ended up in a car boot sale, where somebody optimistic paid £5 too much for it!

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Grey_Critic said:

GDB2222 said:

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Not having Apple products myself but the wife has an iPad that is registered to youngest who bought it for her - BUT what would be the response from Apple if someone died and ledt ALL their personal effects to their partner/son/daughter - would they still refuse to assist?

All my electronics are listed together with passwords etc

Yep - I don't know its back story.

TBH, I just wanted it to run one app (for my home lights), so it was no biggie.

My gripe with Apple is that they have put a mechanism in place but don't have a structure to support it; some might say that it's a cynical ploy to reduce used sales.

The problem with being an optimist is that you are always going to be disappointed!

You mean that there are actually some people who wouldn't say that??

There are, its about data privacy. 

Just because someone wasnt cautious enough to think to update their will each time they bought a new ipad or watch or whatever the next type of tech is that it is to be destroyed rather than passed on doesnt mean they want their wife to have access to their device post their death and have all the contact details, emails, texts etc that they've been exchanging with their lovers over the decades. 

To me the fact the partner doesnt know the passcode is a very strong indication there were elements that they didnt want sharing.

Add to that someone can easily dress up in black, knockup a fake death certificate and turn up in store with a sob story of their partner having just died and they desperately need access to the device when really they are just trying to spy on their partner. It then opens Apple to potential law suits about facilitating unauthorised access to data. To avoid that Apple then have to change their T&Cs to say they can share your data with anyone and then that damages all their marketing about being a privacy lead device.


Similarly its massively reduced theft/loss... Mrs has left her phone in places in the UK many times, Mexico, India and other places and each time its been returned a) because the system allows the finder to call a number using the device and b) because its useless to anyone else.

prowla said:

[Deleted User] said:

prowla said:

[Deleted User] said:

Apple are not blocking anything - the owner of the device has chosen not to unlock it!

They also fudge the difference between an item reported as stolen (with crime reference number) and simply someone hasn't de-registered it (forgot, couldn't be bothered, switched brands and dropped their Apple account, estate sale, house clearance, etc.); they're happy to just have them all bricked so they're no good for resale.

If somebody presents a device to Apple for unlocking, how are Apple supposed to know whether it is stolen or not? Unless you have a matching purchase receipt that proves you are the owner of the device, there is nothing else that can absolutely prove a device is not stolen.

Crime reference numbers are useless, what if a thief brings it to an Apple shop for unlocking before it has been reported stolen? What if the owner doesn't know the serial number of the device they have reported as stolen?

Regarding "plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device" - that is incorrect: as you point out, they don't know/care if it was actually stolen, but rather that it "could be"; therefore they are blocking things and so "reduce second-hand sales" based on a what-if.

As I said, Apple aren't blocking the device, the legitimate owner of the device puts the actrivation lock on the device, not Apple and therefore the legit owner is responsible for removing it. How do you propose that Apple definitively determine whether a device presented to them has 100% not been stolen? Even the police can't confirm that information.

Their mechanism for tracking a lost/stolen device also requires you to have another iPhone/iPad to run their app; thereby meaning you have to buy more of their product.

Not it doesn't, can be done from any internet connected device through a browser.

My original point (and the thread title) was that it'd be good to be able to get the iPad back to its original owner if it was indeed stolen; however, the fact is that Apple don't have an infrastructure to support that.

It is not your responsibility to do that, you should check if a device is activation locked before purchasing, and if it is, don't buy it.

Plus it isn't always that simple, if the original owner made an insurance claim for it, then the device doesn't belong to them and instead now belongs to an insurance company. 

Anyway, only my opinion, not saying I'm right but I did quote many facts that point to a big reduction in the theft of Apple devices as a result of this and I'd say that is very hard to argue against.

All this can be 100% avoided if people stop buying locked devices and then all of the above is irrelevant.

The assertion is that there is a "legitimate" owner who has "chosen not to unlock it" is the flaw in the argument; I've already given examples which debunk that.

But your final sentence there neatly sums it up: if people stop buying locked (or unseen/battery-dead) devices, then the intent is that it'll translate to new sales.

Not quite, plenty of legitimate 2nd hand Apple devices, there isn’t a shortage and therefore locked devices do not translate to new sales. 

On the other hand stolen Apple devices probably do contribute to new sales as they are often replaced by insurance. Yet Apple have effectively reduced theft of those devices as I evidenced. 

I stand by my assertion that the legitimate owner has chosen for it not to be unlocked. Arrangements can be made for any circumstances including death if you wish your device to be unlocked.

Only dodgy or ignorant sellers will try to sell a locked Apple device. Unfortunately some buyers fall for this type of scam but the old “sold as seen” adage comes into play, if you are happy to hand over money for a device that your haven’t seen working then that is your risk and responsibility. 

I'll probably jailbreak it for the fun of it and/or bin it.

It'd have to be a very old device on iOS8 or earlier (16 is the current version) as since then jailbreaking hasnt been able to get around the activiation lock.

prowla said:

[Deleted User] said:

prowla said:

outtatune said:

prowla said:

GDB2222 said:

I found an apple tracker in our local park. When I checked it with NFC, it gave me a phone number to ring, and we eventually returned it. It had been attached to their dog. They still had the dog, and they were pleased to get the tracker back.

With your ipad, it may have belonged to someone who died, say. The heirs didn't have the passcode. They didn't have the receipt, etc, so they couldn't get Apple to unlock it**. It was an old ipad, and they gave it away. They haven't set a return telephone number, because they don't want it back. It ended up in a car boot sale, where somebody optimistic paid £5 too much for it!

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Grey_Critic said:

GDB2222 said:

** ISTR that Apple will unlock it if the heirs get a court order, but that would only be worthwhile if there are important photos, say, on the machine.

Not having Apple products myself but the wife has an iPad that is registered to youngest who bought it for her - BUT what would be the response from Apple if someone died and ledt ALL their personal effects to their partner/son/daughter - would they still refuse to assist?

All my electronics are listed together with passwords etc

Yep - I don't know its back story.

TBH, I just wanted it to run one app (for my home lights), so it was no biggie.

My gripe with Apple is that they have put a mechanism in place but don't have a structure to support it; some might say that it's a cynical ploy to reduce used sales.

The problem with being an optimist is that you are always going to be disappointed!

You mean that there are actually some people who wouldn't say that??

Haha - I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

I think, after years of them being my automatic choice, Apple are now relegated from my buying plans.

I seriously think you are both cynical for saying that  - and wrong ...

Activation lock reduces the attraction for theft of an iPhone - a fairly important feature when walking around in public with a £600-£1000+ device.

I have some facts to back this up...

https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-leads-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/

https://appleinsider.com/articles/14/06/20/police-say-ios-7-activation-lock-is-significantly-reducing-thefts-of-apple-products

https://www.igeeksblog.com/apple-kill-switch-reduced-iphone-theft-worldwide/#:~:text=Since the implementation of the,and New York by 19%.

From the above link ... in 2022 Samsung are catching on....

"As theft of Samsung’s Android based devices which don’t include a kill switch rose by 51% in New York, Samsung has implemented for their top tier device, the S5, their own version of the kill switch."

My gripe with Apple is that they have put a mechanism in place but don't have a structure to support it; some might say that it's a cynical ploy to reduce used sales.

And why would it reduce second-hand sales?

If an Apple iPhone / iPad owner wants to sell their device, they have a choice of selling it locked for peanuts or taking 2 mins to deactivate it and sell it for the premium price that 2nd hand Apple products fetch.

There are plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device.

The ones that turn up for sale locked could be stolen and therefore shouldn't be bought as it is handling stolen goods.

If for one feel it is safer to own a lockable product.

•  their use of proprietary connectors which they change periodically.

You mean how in the last 22 years they've had 2 connectors for iphones/ipods? A company wanting to maximise revenue would surely change it more frequently than every 11 years? USB has gone through more iterations with USB-A, USB-B, USB-A Mini, USB-B Mini, USB-AB Mini, USB-A Micro, USB-B Micro, USB-AB Micro, SS A, SS B, SS AB, SS Micro A, SS Micro B, SS Micro AB and USB C

Personally, where I do have issue with their connectors, is with laptops where we have had magsafe 1-3 and a brief time with USB. There is no obvious improvements/benefits between the different iterations of magsafe whereas there clearly was from the 30 pin dock connector to Lightning

Its also far from unique to Apple having their own connectors.... Samsung had their own 30 pin connector for the Galaxy Tab, Sony has its WM port and all manner of business laptop builders had their own ports for docking stations... Dell had many different iterations of it too as we used to have 5 different dock types in the office and most laptops would only fit one or two. 

jon81uk

prowla said:

[Deleted User] said:

prowla said:

[Deleted User] said:

Apple are not blocking anything - the owner of the device has chosen not to unlock it!

They also fudge the difference between an item reported as stolen (with crime reference number) and simply someone hasn't de-registered it (forgot, couldn't be bothered, switched brands and dropped their Apple account, estate sale, house clearance, etc.); they're happy to just have them all bricked so they're no good for resale.

If somebody presents a device to Apple for unlocking, how are Apple supposed to know whether it is stolen or not? Unless you have a matching purchase receipt that proves you are the owner of the device, there is nothing else that can absolutely prove a device is not stolen.

Crime reference numbers are useless, what if a thief brings it to an Apple shop for unlocking before it has been reported stolen? What if the owner doesn't know the serial number of the device they have reported as stolen?

Regarding "plenty of mechanisms in place to legitimately deactivate your Apple device" - that is incorrect: as you point out, they don't know/care if it was actually stolen, but rather that it "could be"; therefore they are blocking things and so "reduce second-hand sales" based on a what-if.

As I said, Apple aren't blocking the device, the legitimate owner of the device puts the actrivation lock on the device, not Apple and therefore the legit owner is responsible for removing it. How do you propose that Apple definitively determine whether a device presented to them has 100% not been stolen? Even the police can't confirm that information.

Their mechanism for tracking a lost/stolen device also requires you to have another iPhone/iPad to run their app; thereby meaning you have to buy more of their product.

Not it doesn't, can be done from any internet connected device through a browser.

My original point (and the thread title) was that it'd be good to be able to get the iPad back to its original owner if it was indeed stolen; however, the fact is that Apple don't have an infrastructure to support that.

It is not your responsibility to do that, you should check if a device is activation locked before purchasing, and if it is, don't buy it.

Plus it isn't always that simple, if the original owner made an insurance claim for it, then the device doesn't belong to them and instead now belongs to an insurance company. 

Anyway, only my opinion, not saying I'm right but I did quote many facts that point to a big reduction in the theft of Apple devices as a result of this and I'd say that is very hard to argue against.

All this can be 100% avoided if people stop buying locked devices and then all of the above is irrelevant.

The assertion is that there is a "legitimate" owner who has "chosen not to unlock it" is the flaw in the argument; I've already given examples which debunk that.

But your final sentence there neatly sums it up: if people stop buying locked (or unseen/battery-dead) devices, then the intent is that it'll translate to new sales.

Not quite, plenty of legitimate 2nd hand Apple devices, there isn’t a shortage and therefore locked devices do not translate to new sales. 

On the other hand stolen Apple devices probably do contribute to new sales as they are often replaced by insurance. Yet Apple have effectively reduced theft of those devices as I evidenced. 

I stand by my assertion that the legitimate owner has chosen for it not to be unlocked. Arrangements can be made for any circumstances including death if you wish your device to be unlocked.

Only dodgy or ignorant sellers will try to sell a locked Apple device. Unfortunately some buyers fall for this type of scam but the old “sold as seen” adage comes into play, if you are happy to hand over money for a device that your haven’t seen working then that is your risk and responsibility. 

As per the OP, it was only a fiver, so worth a punt.

Since Apple don't seem to provide a way of getting a device they've locked back to its owner, I'll probably jailbreak it for the fun of it and/or bin it.

Apple does provide a way of getting a lost device back to its owner, if the owner chooses to display their contact details. Some people would rather just make the insurance claim instead of putting their details out. Or once a reasonable amount of time has passed they decide to erase it instead of leaving it in lost mode.
Mark a device as lost in Find My on iPad – Apple Support (UK)
Use the Find My app to locate a missing device or item – Apple Support (UK)

borse2008

prowla said:

I bought an iPad for a £5 at a car boot sale.

I knew it was a risk and might not even work.

However, I decided to give it a go.

I reset the iPad and reinitialised it via iTunes and it seemed to work fine, but when got to the point in setup it asked for its Apple ID, so it had an Activation Lock.

Of course, I've no idea who the previous owner was, so that info is not available.

I tried a free unlocking tool but it failed.

I then went to an Apple Store and asked if they could unlock it and they said it could only be unlocked via the Apple Support web site.

I didn't believe them, but I wasn't inclined to argue the point.

I tried Apple Support online, but it wanted the original sales receipt, which (of course) I don't have.

So I went to a paid unlocker and tried there.

They came back and said it couldn't be unlocked because it was lost/stolen.

So now I've got a bricked iPad.

No worries - it was a punt which didn't work out.

I might Jailbreak it, just for the heck of it.

However, I'm wondering if there's a mechanism for getting it back to its rightful owner.

Any suggestions on that front?

The only thing you can do officially is obtain the proof of purchase of this device which i assume is unlikely or obtain the seller information and ask them to unlock it for you.  Apple are the only company that can do this correctly third party tools do not work and are not recommended.