EDF, We need to upgrade your meter as soon as possible due to upcoming industry changes.

Swipe

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

[Deleted User]

Swipe said:

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

It might be worth thinking through the possible consequences of a delay first before doing nothing:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1779803/energy-bill-price-hike-rts-avoid

Swipe

Dolor said:

Swipe said:

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

It might be worth thinking through the possible consequences of a delay first before doing nothing:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1779803/energy-bill-price-hike-rts-avoid

Not an issue if they have a mechanical timer switch rather than a radio timer switch

Gerry1

Dolor said:

Swipe said:

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

It might be worth thinking through the possible consequences of a delay first before doing nothing:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1779803/energy-bill-price-hike-rts-avoid

I'm very surprised that with your in-depth industry knowledge you're linking to scaremongering clickbait article in a tabloid newspaper.  It's clearly nonsense that meters will be left jammed on peak rates depending on when the RTS signal dies.

As discussed in other posts, a system that relied only on real-time commands would never have been commissioned because of the obvious vulnerabilities.

There are many reasons why the RTS signal could become too weak to operate at any given location e.g. a mast collapse, transmitter failure, local interference, screening from new local buildings are just some of the reasons.

The biggest risk would be deliberate screening of the meter by the user to get low rate electricity for evermore.  Similarly, it would obviously be unacceptable for thousands of vulnerable people to be left without hot water and night storage heating.

CSI_Yorkshire

Gerry1 said:

Dolor said:

Swipe said:

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

It might be worth thinking through the possible consequences of a delay first before doing nothing:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1779803/energy-bill-price-hike-rts-avoid

It's clearly nonsense unlikely, but not technically impossible, that meters will be left jammed on peak rates depending on when the RTS signal dies.

FTFY.

But I agree with your logic and conclusion.

Gerry1

CSI_Yorkshire said:

GerryEell1 said:

Dolor said:

Swipe said:

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

It might be worth thinking through the possible consequences of a delay first before doing nothing:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1779803/energy-bill-price-hike-rts-avoid

It's clearly nonsense unlikely, but not technically impossible, that meters will be left jammed on peak rates depending on when the RTS signal dies.

FTFY.

But I agree with your logic and conclusion.

We'll have to agree to disagree whether it's nonsense, but my RTS times carried on quite happily when Droitwich was off the air overnight some years ago.  If there was this obvious vulnerability it would have been widely hacked by students long ago.

Raxiel

Gerry1 said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

GerryEell1 said:

Dolor said:

Swipe said:

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

It might be worth thinking through the possible consequences of a delay first before doing nothing:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1779803/energy-bill-price-hike-rts-avoid

It's clearly nonsense unlikely, but not technically impossible, that meters will be left jammed on peak rates depending on when the RTS signal dies.

FTFY.

But I agree with your logic and conclusion.

We'll have to agree to disagree whether it's nonsense, but my RTS times carried on quite happily when Droitwich was off the air overnight some years ago.  If there was this obvious vulnerability it would have been widely hacked by students long ago.

And as I said in the previous thread, a temporary disruption to the RTS signal doesn't mean the switch will continue to work in perpetuity once the signal is permanently withdrawn.

Based on the actual components inside a teleswitch, and an analysis of the RTS signal, the most likely outcome is that following the signal switch off an RTS will continue on its last programme until such time as it encounters a supply interruption. When the supply returns the switch will have no way to re-establish it's real time clock without the RTS signal and will either start it's on-peak timer immediately, with no relation to the actual time, or it will sit in the on-peak mode permanently until it gets the data it needs from an RTS signal that will never come.

Gerry1

Raxiel said:

Gerry1 said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

GerryEell1 said:

Dolor said:

Swipe said:

johnb2 said:

We have a white meter tariff (inherited from Seeboard in London) which runs from 10:30-7:30 GMT year-round, but are currently charged on an E7 tariff, which is clearly to our advantage. Does anyone have any experience whether EDF correctly install smart meters to preserve the grandfathered tariff?

I doubt it very much. In my case, when my mechanical E7 meter was replaced with an E7 EDF smart meter, my off peak times also changed by around 1 hour which suggests to be that you'd get your 7 hours preset on the smart meter which match your DNO region timings instead. If I were you, (assuming you use off peak for heating) I'd avoid the meter change for as long as you can. In your case, I'd even argue to delay it to the point where they threaten you with a warrant and then get it changed at that point.

It might be worth thinking through the possible consequences of a delay first before doing nothing:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1779803/energy-bill-price-hike-rts-avoid

It's clearly nonsense unlikely, but not technically impossible, that meters will be left jammed on peak rates depending on when the RTS signal dies.

FTFY.

But I agree with your logic and conclusion.

We'll have to agree to disagree whether it's nonsense, but my RTS times carried on quite happily when Droitwich was off the air overnight some years ago.  If there was this obvious vulnerability it would have been widely hacked by students long ago.

When the supply returns the switch will have no way to re-establish it's real time clock without the RTS signal and will either start it's on-peak timer immediately, with no relation to the actual time, or it will sit in the on-peak mode permanently until it gets the data it needs from an RTS signal that will never come.

There seem to be three beefy 1000uF capacitors in my RTS so I'd expect the clock to keep running during an outage.  (See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfioJkTaoI at 11:45.)

Perhaps if there's a two-week outage after the Long Wave signal has ceased then there may be a risk that the clock in no longer accurate after the supply has been restored, but that's almost a darkness at noon situation.

However, the E7 times are preset locally in the RTS by rocker switches so the worst that can happen is that the E7 times may drift, just as mechanical rotary ones do.  Any such drift is likely to benefit the consumer by shifting the cheap rate to day time hours.

There's simply no way the meter will be 'permanently jammed at peak rate' so the article is just tabloid scaremongering.  The designers of RTSs weren't idiots.