UKPC DCBL Hospital Staff Parking County Court Claim

hospdoc

Hi,

I would appreciate you help and guidance. I have read the NEWBIES thread and have also seen some thread about DCB legal and am therefore posting my case on here.

I have received a county court claim form on 19th May 2023 from DCB Legal regarding a historic PCN by UKPC from August 2018 at Stoke Mandeville and Wycombe Hospital staff car park. They are asking for £120 (total of PCN and damages) plus 8% annual interest + £35 court fee + £50 legal fee to total £255. The POC states the date of the PCN and provides a PCN number. Specifically it states the PCN was issued on private land owned or managed by UKPC. As the vehicle was parked in breach of UKPC’s displayed signs (the contract). It states the driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. It states I am liable as the driver or keeper. It states that despite requests the PCN is outstanding and the contract entitles UKPC to damages. Claiming as above.

This is following a LBC received in April 2023 (which I opened late due to being away and did not respond to). This shows the PCN schedule stating it is for displaying an expired/discontinued permit (I note that this is not stated on the PoC)

At the time I was a doctor employed by this NHS hospital trust having just started there. I was paying monthly from my salary in order to park in the staff car park. I was initially issued a temporary permit with a 1 month expiry whilst a full permit was printed and issued. Given the length of time since the PCN I cannot fully recall events and do not have the PCN. However it may be feasible there was a delay in me getting the printed permit (as we worked at two sites and permits were printed at one site if I recall correctly) and so I may still have been displaying the temporary permit. I was however paying the parking subscription continuously throughout this period from my salary. I do not recall if I appealed the PCN at the time.

There are historic issues with UKPC and this specific hospital trust with lots of PCNs being issued intermittently for various practices in the staff car park (not parking within lines or being double parked). This was a common and accepted practice at the time due to limited parking and everyone needing to be at work to do their job! In fact having just researched it now from newspaper articles it appears the trust has since ended their contract with UKPC and was calling for staff affected with delayed/historic PCNs to get in touch. I intend to do so ASAP however I am unsure what they are able to do in the case of a county court claim. 

I can see that there has been another post just yesterday on the forum for the same hospital!

I have submitted a SAR to UKPC (6/6/23) and intend to fully prepare my defence using the template as a basis. I have also completed the AOS (on 6/6/23 - delayed as I was also away) and so now leaves me approximately a further 2 further weeks to prepare my defence. You guidance would be appreciated. 

 Are there any other technicalities in this situation I should be aware of?

Many thanks and apologies for the long length of this post.

*******Prior to posting this I have already received the SAR from UKPC within 24 hours. It shows on the notice to keeper that the initial penalty change was £60.

I have also contacted the hospital trust who are going to directly contact UKPC. It appears the trust had come to an agreement to write off any parking notices issued against staff by UKPC.

Nevertheless I intend to produce a defence as I am unsure what will happen next!********

 

 

 

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

You say you  "have received a county court claim form on 19th May 2023".

Can you now please tell us the Issue Date on that County Court Claim Form?

Coupon-mad

Received on 19th May or ISSUE DATE 19th May?

I can see that there has been another post just yesterday on the forum for the same hospital.

I was about to say that!  You'll both see your cases discontinued but should pm each other for moral support.

I have also contacted the hospital trust who are going to directly contact UKPC. It appears the trust had come to an agreement to write off any parking notices issued against staff by UKPC.

Interesting!

So Stoke Mandeville and Wycombe Hospital have stated this?  Please show us proof or get it by email, can you do that?

Proof would help so many others!

 I am unsure what they are able to do in the case of a county court claim. 

They can. Leeds Bradford Airport just told another ex-clamper, VCS, to cancel a charge that had already had a claim filed.

But have UKPC still got the control or were they sacked?

If they have had their marching orders (and IMHO they should have been dumped by all hospitals by now) there's no leverage really to call off a court claim.

If they still have the contract, the NHS Trust can tell them what to do because UKPC won't want to be dumped.

You are on the right track. Good research.  Use the defence by @Johny86 which is based on the forum's Template Defence but adds extra paragraphs specific to DCBLegal's woeful POC.

hospdoc

Received on 19th May or ISSUE DATE 19th May?

Apologies, it is issue date 19th May 2023

I have also contacted the hospital trust who are going to directly contact UKPC. It appears the trust had come to an agreement to write off any parking notices issued against staff by UKPC.

Interesting!

So Stoke Mandeville and Wycombe Hospital have stated this?  Please show us proof or get it by email, can you do that?

Proof would help so many others!

They have indeed when I contacted the parking team via email. I am not sure of how to attach an email as I am a new user. Here are their responses.

PALS:

I’m sorry that this has been sent to you, it seems the UKPC have sold their debt to another company who have now come looking for it.
As I understand it, the trust were able to come to an agreement at the time to write off any parking notices issues against staff by UKPC. Please email the car parking team. They are dealing with this situation as it develops and will be best placed to advise you on how to proceed.

 Parking team:

I have now written to UKPC on your behalf with an urgent request to cancel this case.
I am currently dealing with a number of such cases and from observation we are seeing cases where the motorist has not engaged with the court are easier to close down so it is entirely up to you if you wish to write in.
Be assured that the Trust has not instigated these and have now engaged at executive level to understand why this is happening to so many of our present and past colleagues.
I will be in touch as soon as I hear back from their side.

But have UKPC still got the control or were they sacked?

My understanding is the trust has ended the contract with UKPC. I cannot post links but there is an article (on 'buckinghamshirelive website') specifically about this back in 2021 suggesting the contact has ended. 

Although the parking team seem to suggest ignoring the county claim helps I intend to prepare a defence over the next week using the template. 

KeithP

hospdoc said:

Although the parking team seem to suggest ignoring the county claim helps I intend to prepare a defence over the next week using the template. 

That's not a good idea and you are right to press on with a Defence until such time as you have it in writing either from the HMCTS or UKPC that the claim is discontinued.

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th May, you had until Wednesday 7th June to file an Acknowledgment of Service. If you did not file an Acknowledgment of Service by that date then the Claimant has been free to seek a Default Judgment since then. If you haven't done so already, you must file an Acknowledgment of Service as soon as possible - ideally before 8am today.

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st June 2023 to file your Defence.

That's less than two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Coupon-mad

Do the AOS right now...you are late and you are at imminent risk of a CCJ, if you haven't done the AOS.

Newbies thread walks you through it in pictures. 

Also - secondly - reply to that email and tell the person that you are receiving dedicated advice from an experienced team of people who deal with rogue parking court claims every day.  The Trust MUST NOT tell people "not to engage with a court claim" which is appalling and worrying - that causes a CCJ!  You must tell them never to say that or they are causing CCJs.  Claims MUST be defended and you are happy to be put in touch with other victims if other staff need signposting to free help.

Once you have defended and got a discontinuance, do you fancy getting together with the other victim on here and getting this in a local and national newspaper?

That email exchange is dynamite.
TOTALLY SHOCKING.

What's the full name of the NHS Trust?

I want to put in a FOI request to see the notes and paperwork, and the undertaking made with UKPC to write off the staff PCNs.

To get an undertaking from UKPC to "write off" hundreds of PCNs, I am guessing that your Trust may have PAID OFF UKPC at the time.  

If I'm right, I want to know how much money was thrown at this to rid themselves of UKPC, if that's what happened.  I am going to ask, unless you think you'd be better placed to get it.

Are the union aware?  Please tell EVERYONE.

Hertsdriver

Hi Coupon-mad, the Trust is the same as the one I worked at: Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust

Coupon-mad

Hertsdriver said:

Hi Coupon-mad, the Trust is the same as the one I worked at: Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust

I'm happy to do a FOI request, which might flush out some confirmation of what happened, what undertaking the Trust thinks they had from UKPC and how much the Trust threw at them to see them out of town, allegedly.

fisherjim

hospdoc said:

PALS:

I’m sorry that this has been sent to you, it seems the UKPC have sold their debt to another company who have now come looking for it.
As I understand it, the trust were able to come to an agreement at the time to write off any parking notices issues against staff by UKPC. Please email the car parking team. They are dealing with this situation as it develops and will be best placed to advise you on how to proceed.

 Parking team:

I have now written to UKPC on your behalf with an urgent request to cancel this case.
I am currently dealing with a number of such cases and from observation we are seeing cases where the motorist has not engaged with the court are easier to close down so it is entirely up to you if you wish to write in.
Be assured that the Trust has not instigated these and have now engaged at executive level to understand why this is happening to so many of our present and past colleagues.
I will be in touch as soon as I hear back from their side.

But have UKPC still got the control or were they sacked?

My understanding is the trust has ended the contract with UKPC. I cannot post links but there is an article (on 'buckinghamshirelive website') specifically about this back in 2021 suggesting the contact has ended.

UKPC cannot sell any alleged debt to a debt collector as it is not a debt unless proven in court.

My wife used to work for this trust, unfortunately she does not have any correspondence about the parking contract now but from recollection no PCN's could progress unless they were reviewed by the parking team at Stoke.

The parking was controlled at Wycombe by a rather gruff NHS employed parking attendant that wore a bush hat.

The parking at Amersham was controlled by a nice old gent employed by the trust, who warned people first and even used to carry their bags to the front door using PCN's as a last resort.

He was told he wasn't employed to be helpful and to issue more tickets, he told them what to do with their job, left, and UKPC stepped up their foot patrols. My wife got a ticket but it was cancelled by the trust before it went anywhere.

I think Stoke used both a trust employee and UKPC due to its geographic size.

As I understand it the trust used to get 10% of the paid PCN's.

SABA are now in place and ANPR has been instaled.

I would suggest that UKPC are going this alone in their name to put on pressure to gain maximum pay back, how that stacks up with their now cancelled contract I wouldn't know, however if the contract does not give them the right to pursue without authorisation from the land owner surely it's just bluff anyway?

Local news article:

https://www.buckinghamshirelive.com/news/buckinghamshire-news/buckinghamshire-hospitals-staff-parking-tickets-4950798

cdotbdot

I am in a similar boat, though at Milton Keynes. I had send them an FoI asking for a copy of the termination contract, but they did not have a copy.

Though the hospital did say that they would not recieve the 10% mentioned in the original agreement, anymore.

I wonder if UKPC can still claim to own the PCN, if they are not going to pay the 10% cut to the landowner.

Coupon-mad

Thanks. I'll see what I can get by FOI.