Form PA1P Section 3.6: Which option when the executor named in the will ceased trading?

RichNotYet

Hi all. 
After some concerns, my sister and I decided to take the plunge and act as executors to our late mothers estate, hopefully saving about £10k.
We're working through forms PA1P, IHT205, IHT217.
PA1P section 3.6 asks "Name any executors who are not making this application, and explain why"
However, none of the options match our situation - the named executor in the will, let's call them "Acme Solicitors" went bust years ago. The will names the company, not an individual. 
The Options given are:
Reasons for executors not applying:
A – They died before the person who has died.
B – They died after the person who has died (Please include the date they died by their name).
C – Power reserved: they have chosen not to apply, but reserve the right to do so later.
D – Renunciation: they have chosen not to apply, and give up all rights to apply. (Before you send off your application please read NOTE REASON D)
E – Power of attorney: they have appointed or wish to appoint another person to act as their attorney to take a Grant of Representation on their behalf (You will also need to complete Section 5 of this application). (Before you send off your application please read NOTE REASON E)
F – They lack capacity to act as executor

I think it would be F - however the notes indicate that this is more related to medical capacity, and needs accompanying medical evidence.

Can anyone advise what we should do here please?

Many thanks in advance.
R.

JGB1955

Have you found out from the Solicitors Regulation Authority if another firm took over 'Acme's' roles and responsibilities?

RichNotYet

JGB1955 said:

Have you found out from the Solicitors Regulation Authority if another firm took over 'Acme's' roles and responsibilities?

Not as yet. We knew that another company was holding the Will, but they hadn't bought the business and were only holding it.  When we contacted them to collect the Will, they made a half-hearted attempt to sell us an Executor service, but they were pretty chaotic so we politely declined.

RichNotYet

JGB1955 said:

Have you found out from the Solicitors Regulation Authority if another firm took over 'Acme's' roles and responsibilities?

I've now submitted a request to them to assist. Do you know what they will provide (if anything) and as a result, what option we would be looking at on the PA1P form?
Thanks again.

RAS

RichNotYet said:

JGB1955 said:

Have you found out from the Solicitors Regulation Authority if another firm took over 'Acme's' roles and responsibilities?

I've now submitted a request to them to assist. Do you know what they will provide (if anything) and as a result, what option we would be looking at on the PA1P form?
Thanks again.

Who is "them"? The SRA or the company who took over "Acme".

And have you spoken to the Probate Registry to find out what documentation they would require?

You may only need evidence that Acme have ceased to trade?

RichNotYet

RAS said:

RichNotYet said:

JGB1955 said:

Have you found out from the Solicitors Regulation Authority if another firm took over 'Acme's' roles and responsibilities?

I've now submitted a request to them to assist. Do you know what they will provide (if anything) and as a result, what option we would be looking at on the PA1P form?
Thanks again.

Who is "them"? The SRA or the company who took over "Acme".

And have you spoken to the Probate Registry to find out what documentation they would require?

You may only need evidence that Acme have ceased to trade?

Thanks - It was the SRA that I've contacted. As the Solicitors have gone bust, I guess there is no issue in me referring to them by their correct name - Attey Bower & Jones. 
I've since found this story through Google: (I'm too new here to post links...)
22 March 2013: The Solicitors Regulation Authority has appointed Bradford-headquartered law firm Gordons to oversee the closure of Sheffield law firm Atteys. As "intervention agents" Gordons has the authority to seize papers and act on matters for former clients of the failed firm.

I phoned the Probate service this morning to ask them what documentation they want, but couldn't get through to anyone. I will try again tomorrow...

Thanks again.
R.

Savvy_Sue

May be quicker and easier to ask Gordons!

Keep_pedalling

On another point, why are you looking at forms IHT 295 & 217? Unless she died prior to 1st Jan 2022 those no longer apply. If there is no IHT to pay you no longer have to submit an IHT return unless you need to claim the residence NRB in which case you need to do a full return on IHT 400 and a bunch of supplementary forms.

RichNotYet

Keep_pedalling said:

On another point, why are you looking at forms IHT 295 & 217? Unless she died prior to 1st Jan 2022 those no longer apply. If there is no IHT to pay you no longer have to submit an IHT return unless you need to claim the residence NRB in which case you need to do a full return on IHT 400 and a bunch of supplementary forms.

Thank you - because on the PA1P form it states that you need these for HMCTS... 
To quote from PA1P page 1:
Checklist – before you send your application form to HMCTS Probate you will need to enclose the following. This checklist must be completed. If you do not enclose all of the required documents it will delay your application. Please keep copies of all documents that you send.

• PA1P - Probate Application (this form) - where a person who has died has left a will.
  Inheritance Tax Summary Form: Please submit the appropriate form (IHT205 or IHT207, and IHT217 if applicable), signed by all applicants (see additional notes in Section 7).
  The last original will and any codicils made since that will.
  A copy of any foreign wills or any wills dealing with assets held outside England and Wales (and if not in English, an English translation).
  An official copy (not a photocopy) of the death certificate, or a coroner’s interim certificate of the person who has died. Any other documents requested on this form. Please list them

I'm a bit confused now...  I thought we didn't need to submit IHT400 as the estate was under the threshold. 
Could I give a quick low-down?
Mum died recently, with our Dad passing away some 10 years ago. They had mirror wills.
Estate now is worth approx - £300k in bank assets, £250k in the property.
We intended to pull across my dads unused allowance..
When I ran the HMRC tool, it said no IHT was due...

Do you think I'm on the right track, or should we be actually submitting an IHT400 etc?

I'm very grateful for all the help here - thank you.

RichNotYet

Savvy_Sue said:

May be quicker and easier to ask Gordons!

Thank you - I did just that today! They weren't any help, and said they didn't hold any records, and that I should approach the SRA. I then spoke to someone at the SRA, who said that they didn't have any records as the firm is no longer trading. 
I've also hunted on Companies house, but there is no record of "Attey Bower & Jones", but several derivatives of Attey's PLL, Atteys this that and the other, all look like they are related with various same Directors...  I've taken screen shots of all of this.

I did some more hunting on the internet, and I've found old Gazette references to Attey Bower & Jones, so they definitely used to exist! I've pulled together a bunch of screen shots and documents to demonstrate that Attey Bower and Jones used to exist in Doncaster, and their registered address. I've then linked this through companies house PDF's to the newer Attey LLC, and a couple of stories from back in 2013 that show the SRA appointed Gordons and that Attey's went bust.

I then phoned the Probate help line, explained the situation, and they've advised that I need to mark the PA1P form Section 3.6 as item F  - "Executors lacking capacity to act as executors" and attach the evidence that I've found.
So I'm hoping that this will be sufficient evidence. It's a bit of a game this isn't it!
Thanks again!

Sarahspangles

RichNotYet said:

I'm a bit confused now...  I thought we didn't need to submit IHT400 as the estate was under the threshold. 
Could I give a quick low-down?
Mum died recently, with our Dad passing away some 10 years ago. They had mirror wills.
Estate now is worth approx - £300k in bank assets, £250k in the property.
We intended to pull across my dads unused allowance..
When I ran the HMRC tool, it said no IHT was due...

Do you think I'm on the right track, or should we be actually submitting an IHT400 etc?

I'm very grateful for all the help here - thank you.

How recently? There is a new process for deaths after 1 January 2022, so make sure you’re using the right one. It’s accessed by following the ‘complete the probate form’ link on this page.  If you miss it and to forward from this page it takes you to ‘old’ forms to use for earlier deaths.

https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/excepted-estates-1-january-2022