PCN unclear parking

maxsti15

Hi,

The driver received a PCN on windscreen courtesy of Gemini Parking Solutions on 17/5/23 and was baffled as to why, the car park has number plate recognition and the right money had been paid for the stay. The driver went to exit and then decided to drive back and check out the space. It was apparent why when looking from outside the car. Plan to appeal as the markings are barely visible and could not be seen from inside the car, someone had also parked to the right leaving a space in the middle which looked like it was ok to park. Looking at the ground it even says park lol. Old signage had been left discarded on the floor. It's clearly a 'profitable parking spot, there was someone else's PCN discarded on the floor next to the driver's car (the one with boot open in the picture.)

This was a genuine situation and I don't think the driver should have to pay as the markings weren't clear. Photos attached.

A friend appealed a ticket in the same car park via the website and was successful but am I right in thinking the advice here would be to wait for an NTK? I've looked up Gemini and they seem to be IPC members, also bought by APCOA? Is it not worth an appeal before NTK?

TIA

Coupon-mad

I'd use that last photo and not the second one.  Appeal to Gemini as driver (to make it easier) and then to the IAS with that last photo and the one of signs in the floor BUT ADD THE METADATA TO SHOW THE DATE & TIME THE PICS WERE TAKEN.

I think as a new IPC member, Gemini won't want the IAS/IPC to see this and I'd actually robustly say that in my first appeal & say their Directors should stop writing conceited 'look at me' books and doing podcasts as if they are some sort of influencers and just sort out their signs & lines or you will show this photo evidence to the IAS.  And to the DLUHC because the photos are already on MSE Forum and could be sent to the Government chaps and chapesses by Coupon-mad in a nanosecond if this appeal is rejected.

SAY ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Be polite but sarcastic as you like.

The fact this lot moved to the IPC (one presumes for easier pro-PPC appeals) is appalling.  With signs & lines like that, Gemini deserve bad publicity and their name being known/card being marked by the DLUHC and I can do that.

maxsti15

Thank you, I really appreciate your response. I will appeal in those terms. So, appeal to both Gemini and IAS without waiting for a response from Gemini?

Thanks again...

Coupon-mad

No, you can't do that!

Le_Kirk

You have to wait for your appeal to be rejected by Gemini - but if you write what @Coupon-mad suggests, will it be rejected?

maxsti15

Sorry to bother on this again. I've just been in to lodge the appeal and there is not really a category that fits the basis of the appeal, I've attached a photo of the options. The nearest option is 'no signage' but since they have posted a photo of 'a sign' stating you can't park in this area, no idea where that sign is I didn't see it from where I parked,  and I did not park near a wall, so am happy to appeal but just not sure what to appeal under. Probably signage and say the sign wasn't visible from the space and photo of floor shows PARK. I have lots of photos from different angles. Do you agree with my choice?

Coupon-mad

Choose anything, honestly.  Use all of my wording. Stop respecting them!

Castle

maxsti15 said:

Sorry to bother on this again. I've just been in to lodge the appeal and there is not really a category that fits the basis of the appeal, I've attached a photo of the options. The nearest option is 'no signage' but since they have posted a photo of 'a sign' stating you can't park in this area, no idea where that sign is I didn't see it from where I parked,  and I did not park near a wall, so am happy to appeal but just not sure what to appeal under. Probably signage and say the sign wasn't visible from the space and photo of floor shows PARK.

But the sign/signage refers to the BPA, not the IPC.

Coupon-mad

Good spot.

And the £100 seems to be covered by white paint.  There is no contract offered by that sign.

maxsti15

It's a no from them! Presumably, this is the standard and expected response and I now move on to the IAS appeal? They don't seem to be concerned with the poor quality signage stating that signs are large and prominent! I think the fact that others had received tickets and parked in the same spot at the same time, backs my claim that the signage and markings aren't clear. Also, why would they not photograph the sign showing the 'contract' if there are such signs? Anyhoo... 

fisherjim

All PPC's state that their signage conforms to their ATA's COP why would they admit it doesn't?

When they sign up to the BPA or IPC they supposedly get a visit from their auditors to view their documents, procedures, and their office files of signage examples.

They do not visit every site to check conformance so the whole thing is an unregulated smoke screen!