Parking Charge Notice from Wing Security

SharketMare

Hi - I have read the Newbie Thread and have some outstanding questions. I would be grateful for any advice on how best to proceed. 

My car was parked in a private car park for residents of the estate I live on. The council for a reason unbeknownst to any of the residents contract Wing Security to enforce parking here. The car park is behind a locked gate, and only residents with keys can access it. Residents must also display a (free) parking permit that can be obtained from the council. 

In March earlier this year, I received a second PCN (the first had been issued by Wing Parking, I disputed it, lost, and paid). This time around, Wing Security rather than Wing Parking were listed on the PCN as the Creditor. On the PCN, which is shown below, it claimed I needed to log on to www.ipaymyPCN.com to pay the fine. This website redirects to www.paymyparkingcharge.com, which I understand through looking at their Terms and Conditions is owned by ZZDS. 



My permit had fallen onto the floor of my car. As a result, I emailed (On March 10th) appeals@ipaymypcn.net with the below, along with supporting images of my permit visible through my car window on the floor of my car. In the supporting photos provided by the parking warden, he photographs do not show the floor of my car where the permit had fallen down on to. The permit is quite big - much bigger than a regular parking ticket you'd obtain from a machine.

"Hi there, 

This parking ticket has been given in error. Wing Security know that my car is eligible to park there, and that I hold a valid permit to park there for an entire year. This is because the company gave me a ticket, which I paid just last month: Parking Charge Notice (PCN) - XXXXXX. My permit had fallen on to the floor, but was still visible had the ticket inspector bothered to look through the windows. Perhaps the rainy weather did not help their cause. Pictures attached. Please cancel this ticket.

Thanks,"

On April 20th I was responded to by someone from Parking Admin Centre, which is run by paymyparkingcharge.com who as far as I can tell work on behalf of Wing Security. They asked me to confirm my name and address in order to process the appeal, which I did. 

On June 2nd, I received the below:

"Good morning,

Our Client:	Wing Security Limited
Parking Charge:	REDACTED
Vehicle Registration No.	REDACTED
Location:	REDACTED
Contravention Date/Time:	09/03/2023 12:54:00
Total Amount Due:	£60.00

 Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge. We have carefully considered your appeal however after full consideration of all details pertaining to this matter; Upon consideration of your appeal, we have concluded that this Parking Charge has been issued correctly.  Whilst we understand you have a permit; this does not authorise you to park. You are only authorised to park by displaying your permit. Going forward, please ensure your permit is still on display when exiting your vehicle to avoid future Parking Charges. The signage on site is sufficient in notifying motorists of the Terms and Conditions on site. As your permit was not displayed, we are unable to accept your appeal.

For your further information, in the case of ParkingEye Limited –v- Beavis the court of appeal unambiguously clarified the common law's position on both the nature and enforceability of parking charges.  

It is now clear that a Parking Charge having the predominant purpose or intention to deter is not sufficient in itself to invalidate the charge so long as it is not extravagant and unconscionable; thus, this Parking Charge is fully enforceable under the rules about contractual penalties.  

The Court made reference to indirect losses that parking contraventions can cause to operators, the need for large charges to deter breaches, the benefit to the community that such deterrence can create and the intention of Parliament for such charges to be enforceable.  

Following the ruling in Beavis, it is without doubt that your Parking Charge is wholly valid and fully enforceable."

I am also provided with options to take the appeal to Stage 2:

"We hope that we have addressed the issues raised in your appeal, however if you are dissatisfied with the facts outlined in the reply, you have the option of taking your complaint further, to Stage 2, by submitting a further appeal within 14 days. Please ensure you quote your Parking Charge Notice reference number as it will make it easier to match the correspondence to your Stage 1 appeal.   

If you wish to make a Stage 2 appeal, please address your correspondence to: Wing Security Limited, Appeals Department, 483 Green Lanes, London, N13 4BS.   

Alternatively, you may email:  Harstage2@gmail.com

The Stage 2 appeal must be made within 14 days of the date of this letter and must state why you are not satisfied with the Stage 1 reply and must include any relevant new evidence. Please remember to quote your vehicle registration and the PCN reference number. Please note that enquiries about Stage 2 appeals will not be dealt with by telephone. 

You may pay the charges, or you may appeal further. You cannot do both. If you do choose to appeal further, and your Stage 2 appeal is rejected, then the charges will be due. There is no further appeal process after our Stage 2 appeal."

One of the things that I've noticed in my research so far is what Wing Security are not listed by the BPA nor the IPC. Is there anything in this that can support me fighting this in Stage 2? 

Currently, on the paymyparkingcharge.com website, it claims that I haven't lodged an appeal and that the fine is now £100. I have also not confirmed to them at any stage that I was the driver of the car.

Any advice on how best to proceed is much appreciated.

Thanks

Umkomaas

They asked me to confirm my name and address in order to process the appeal, which I did. 

🤦‍♂️

Why are you corresponding with Wing Parking?  Unless you contact them after receiving a parking charge on your windscreen, giving them your name and address, they have no prospect of accessing your details from the DVLA (or anywhere else for that matter) as they are not a member of either of the two Accredited Trade Associations, the BPA or IPC. Then, they don't know who you are, so can't write to you!

Stop contacting them, ignore any further contact, unless you receive anything direct from Haringey Council via official letter-headed correspondence. 

SharketMare

Umkomaas said:

They asked me to confirm my name and address in order to process the appeal, which I did. 

🤦‍♂️

Why are you corresponding with Wing Parking?  Unless you contact them after receiving a parking charge on your windscreen, giving them your name and address, they have no prospect of accessing your details from the DVLA (or anywhere else for that matter) as they are not a member of either of the two Accredited Trade Associations, the BPA or IPC. Then, they don't know who you are, so can't write to you!

Stop contacting them, ignore any further contact, unless you receive anything direct from Haringey Council via official letter-headed correspondence. 

Hi, thanks for the response. Yes feeling like a total doughnut after reading the Newbie thread this morning. Wing Security also seem to be separate from Wing Parking (perhaps in name only). 

I will ignore them from here on in. I'm just wary of anything affecting my credit rating further down the line, though given then circumstances I can't imagine them seeking to pursue this in court. 

Umkomaas

I'm just wary of anything affecting my credit rating further down the line, though given then circumstances I can't imagine them seeking to pursue this in court. 

Vanishingly unlikely. Are you fully conversant how a credit rating can be affected in these types of circumstances?

SharketMare

Umkomaas said:

I'm just wary of anything affecting my credit rating further down the line, though given then circumstances I can't imagine them seeking to pursue this in court. 

Vanishingly unlikely. Are you fully conversant how a credit rating can be affected in these types of circumstances?

My understanding is that the company would first have to take me to court, and then the judge would have to issue a court order demanding me to pay. If I then refused to pay that it would appear on my credit file. 

Is that accurate or have I misunderstood?

Coupon-mad

Yes that's right. Won't happen.

Next time you get a PCN from Wing (any iteration) for goodness sake DO NOT APPEAL!

Please tell your neighbours too. this is important. NEVER RESPOND TO WING.

You all have a parking firm who are not affiliated to either Trade Body so cannot legally get your data from the DVLA and cannot send letters or do anything...

...unless the person hands it to them on a plate.

Certainly no paying them again! 

You should have totally ignored the windscreen notes, that have as much clout as a neighbour putting a note on your car.  You are so lucky living where Wing are doing the parking!  You can have visitors all weekend or at Christmas or whatever, and ALL IGNORE the windscreen notes.

SharketMare

Thanks a lot Coupon-mad. Bloody shysters. 

Coupon-mad

Yep but I edited my reply.  Be happy now you know what freedom this gives you and your neighbours!

Half_way

Do you have a community noticeboard ?
I would be tempted to remind all residents about wing parkings inability to access the DVLA database 

SharketMare

We do and I will be doing just that! I think some of the other residents already know to ignore them as I've seen at least one other car receive multiple over the last few months and he just puts them on his dashboard... 

SharketMare

Hi, am I still OK to ignore these from QDR? This is the second note from them. I want to avoid a CCJ being on my record. If they do pursue this in court (will they?) will I have the chance to 1) fight it and 2) pay it before my credit rating being impacted? Thanks in advance.