LPA got myself in a bit of a pickle

bunnygo

firstly, you haven't let your parents down - sounds like you are well on the case.

As the system changed in 2007, it is a little unusual for EPAs still to be in use BUT THEY ARE STILL ABSOLUTELY VALID. All banks and institutions must accept them, but you may need to do a little explaining as training is not always adequate. Tell Nationwide that you have EPA, not LPA and hence there are no online codes. They should accept the EPA on sight of it.

Institutions will accept authenticated copies; make very sure you don't post off the only one you have!  The only place you should send the original is to the office of the public guardian when you decide to register the EPA. I see from this link that they want the original if it still exists, so yes you need to ask the new solicitor to give it to you.

https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney.

Once you have that sorted, get the EPA set up with all the financial institutions, plus the utility providers (water, electricity, gas, phone etc). That will allow you to manage everything. You do not need to take your parents to the banks etc to do this, although you may need an appointment. You'll also need your own proof of ID, and change of address doesn't matter. As the EPA is 'joint and several' just one of you can do this. The banks will then give you online access to the accounts and your own card on it, so you can then manage everything. If bills aren't already on direct debit/standing order, get those setup ASAP, and I also recommend weekly balance alerts to help you keep on top of things. Set everything to paperless and spend a couple of hours setting up a spreadsheet showing how it all works. Share all this information with your brother - he should also get himself set up as attorney so neither of you are the only one able to manage things.

if not already done, there are other things to consider regarding care, a keysafe, registering the house as priority with utilities and so on.

It seems daunting but once it is up and running you'll quickly find a system.

RAS

Klare1 said:

Hi forumites
Hope someone will be able to advise as the OPG is shut until Monday and I can’t find the answer on-line but that’s probably because I’m not thinking straight as unable to sleep as I’ve let my parents down.
Their solicitor prepared Enduring Power of Attorney for me and my brother (jointly or severely) for property and finances in 2007 and sent us authenticated copies. (Solicitor has now retired and sent all the paperwork to a new solicitor).

In Summer 2020 my parents solicitor prepared LPA health & welfare which was registered with the OPG and I have confirmation from them with a reference number and activation key, (of course this only lasts 12 months and has expired) The registered LPA has been sent to the solicitor.

They have an EPA from 2007

They have a health and welfare LPA from 2020.

They don't have a Financial LPA, so hopefully the EPA covers them?

Keep_pedalling

RAS said:

Klare1 said:

Hi forumites
Hope someone will be able to advise as the OPG is shut until Monday and I can’t find the answer on-line but that’s probably because I’m not thinking straight as unable to sleep as I’ve let my parents down.
Their solicitor prepared Enduring Power of Attorney for me and my brother (jointly or severely) for property and finances in 2007 and sent us authenticated copies. (Solicitor has now retired and sent all the paperwork to a new solicitor).

In Summer 2020 my parents solicitor prepared LPA health & welfare which was registered with the OPG and I have confirmation from them with a reference number and activation key, (of course this only lasts 12 months and has expired) The registered LPA has been sent to the solicitor.

They have an EPA from 2007

They have a health and welfare LPA from 2020.

They don't have a Financial LPA, so hopefully the EPA covers them?

Whoops! My senior moment post now deleted.

RAS

The immediate issue, based on my experience, is that to get the bank to recognise the unregistered EPAs, the OP will need to take parents in with them to record it, assuming parents have the capacity to do this.

Otherwise the bank may accept an instruction from the parent to cancel the payment. 

There's a bit of a grey area when the donor's capacity wobbles. Mum took me into the bank and asked staff to let me help her with her account. They recorded the unregistered EPA, and took my instructions but insisted she sign any documents regarding new accounts, even years later when she was in hospital being assessed. We then registered the EPA and had to take it in again.

Klare1

Thanks to you all for your really helpful replies @Teapot55 @Flugelhorn @tacpot12 @Sarahspangles @Daniel54 @bunnygo @RAS @Keep_pedalling
Your signposting has helped me move forward with the issue, but thought you’d like an update.

My brother contacted the company concerned who have said the contract will be cancelled and a refund will be sent by cheque.  I’ll believe it when I see it, but there was no arguing or anything, I think they are used to this type of complaint.  The cynic in me wonders if they are washing money!  Police have advised that if the cheque doesn’t appear we need to go back to the police.  Trading Standards are proving hard to get hold of.

Armed with all your LPA & EPA advice I spoke to a wonderful lady at the OPG who was really helpful and talked me through everything I need to do now to reactivate the LPA activation code, change our addresses and register the EPA.  So I’m in a much better place than I was yesterday.

Thanks again, I truly appreciate the support.

TheBanker

How well do you know your parents' neighbours?

Just wondering if it's worth telling them what's happened, giving them your phone number and asking them to call you straight away if they notice a double glazing company's van turn up?

Klare1

@TheBanker Yes neighbours are aware and would ring us.  The carer is also on alert.  We’re fitting a ring doorbell tomorrow to link to my phone so that I can deter any unwanted callers in future.  
I’ve taken their cards/cheque book away in the interim and am just deciding on best way to leave them with a bank card so they have some dignity and can have a walk to the shop when needed.
The current account can have quite a bit in at some points of the month, so was thinking of asking the bank if we could have a little basic bank account just for spends.  Reluctant to put a cap on the current account which diverts into savings at the moment, until I get the EPA registered, as I pay a lot of their expenses (carer, shopping, etc) from my bank and then she writes me a check once per month. Payments are all referenced from my bank account and listed and receipts kept so it’s clear at the end for the tax man and any beneficiaries that all transactions and payments to me are above board and not gifts. 

bunnygo

I'm very glad you are making progress - and that you got through to the OPG which is an achievement in itself! Once you have the EPA registered and operating, you can take over the current account and use it to pay all their expenses. No more need to write a cheque, and everything is clearly their spending and their money.

Would a Starling connected card work for them? I've just discovered this. You set up a Starling current account (app only), and you can then have one connected card which links to a 'space' within the account. This space can have a maximum of £200 in. The card can be used for shopping (both contactless and with a PIN) but not online or for cash withdrawals. You'll see all the use on the app and the balance, so can top up when needed. Might be of use.