Smart meter incorrect installation caused increased energy usage

matt_drummer

markin said:

Kateg28 said:

This is my new meter

The 2 ct clamps in this photo are a little close and could be separated a little.

Is the white ct clamp on the wrong cable as well then?

Is it supposed to be on the other live (brown) cable from the fuse to the meter?

I can't see it making any difference but it is not where the instructions say it should be.

chris_n

matt_drummer said:

markin said:

Kateg28 said:

This is my new meter

The 2 ct clamps in this photo are a little close and could be separated a little.

Is the white ct clamp on the wrong cable as well then?

Is it supposed to be on the other live (brown) cable from the fuse to the meter?

I can't see it making any difference but it is not where the instructions say it should be.

It makes no difference which side of the meter it is, it is the wrong way round. It should be pointing towards the grid.

[Deleted User]

Putting the CT issue to one side for a moment, whether a CT is fitted on not makes no difference to what the smart meter is recording in the way of import and export. As I posted earlier, I still think that OP's confusion is down to an unrealistic expectation of the savings from a very small array and battery, and an old analogue meter that went backwards when electricity was exported. To put the above into context, an array that generates c.3000kWh/year is not going to knock 3000kWh/year off the import bill even with a small battery: probably, close to 2300kWh/year at best.

Yes, the OP could ask for a meter check but I suspect she would be wasting money if she does.

DougMLancs

But hasn’t the solar array only been in place since April? It can’t have been masking high energy use by running an old meter backwards pre-April.

chris_n

Dolor said:

Putting the CT issue to one side for a moment, whether a CT is fitted on not makes no difference to what the smart meter is recording in the way of import and export. As I posted earlier, I still think that OP's confusion is down to an unrealistic expectation of the savings from a very small array and battery, and an old analogue meter that went backwards when electricity was exported. To put the above into context, an array that generates c.3000kWh/year is not going to knock 3000kWh/year off the import bill even with a small battery: probably, close to 2300kWh/year at best.

Yes, the OP could ask for a meter check but I suspect she would be wasting money if she does.

The incorrect CT orientation is more than likely making the battery charge from the grid when there is any load coming into the house, when the load drops below thresholds then the battery will discharge to grid. The manual states flows will be incorrect ( it actually says backfeeding) when the CT is the wrong way round.
The smart meter is only measuring the import (on that register) but that is then going into the battery then discharging to the grid. There is nothing wrong with the smart meter.

[Deleted User]

chris_n said:

Dolor said:

Putting the CT issue to one side for a moment, whether a CT is fitted on not makes no difference to what the smart meter is recording in the way of import and export. As I posted earlier, I still think that OP's confusion is down to an unrealistic expectation of the savings from a very small array and battery, and an old analogue meter that went backwards when electricity was exported. To put the above into context, an array that generates c.3000kWh/year is not going to knock 3000kWh/year off the import bill even with a small battery: probably, close to 2300kWh/year at best.

Yes, the OP could ask for a meter check but I suspect she would be wasting money if she does.

The incorrect CT orientation is more than likely making the battery charge from the grid when there is any load coming into the house, when the load drops below thresholds then the battery will discharge to grid. The manual states flows will be incorrect ( it actually says backfeeding) when the CT is the wrong way round.
The smart meter is only measuring the import (on that register) but that is then going into the battery then discharging to the grid. There is nothing wrong with the smart meter.

Swings and roundabouts. If the battery is charging from the grid then more solar is going to export. In terms of kW there may be a 10% difference,

If the OP was using 10kWh/day last Winter then this equates to 3650kWh/year. (I know slightly less lighting in the summer). The array is small so is the battery so in the round the OP might get 2/3 of import reduced but this not linear.

I still think that the issue here is high expectations of PV solar and an analogue meter that was knocking off units as energy is being exported. The App and CT placement is only an adding to the OP’s confusion. It is a simple matter of reading the meter once a day to see import versus export.

chris_n

[Deleted User] said:

chris_n said:

Dolor said:

Putting the CT issue to one side for a moment, whether a CT is fitted on not makes no difference to what the smart meter is recording in the way of import and export. As I posted earlier, I still think that OP's confusion is down to an unrealistic expectation of the savings from a very small array and battery, and an old analogue meter that went backwards when electricity was exported. To put the above into context, an array that generates c.3000kWh/year is not going to knock 3000kWh/year off the import bill even with a small battery: probably, close to 2300kWh/year at best.

Yes, the OP could ask for a meter check but I suspect she would be wasting money if she does.

The incorrect CT orientation is more than likely making the battery charge from the grid when there is any load coming into the house, when the load drops below thresholds then the battery will discharge to grid. The manual states flows will be incorrect ( it actually says backfeeding) when the CT is the wrong way round.
The smart meter is only measuring the import (on that register) but that is then going into the battery then discharging to the grid. There is nothing wrong with the smart meter.

Swings and roundabouts. If the battery is charging from the grid then more solar is going to export. In terms of kW there may be a 10% difference,

If the OP was using 10kWh/day last Winter then this equates to 3650kWh/year. (I know slightly less lighting in the summer). The array is small so is the battery so in the round the OP might get 2/3 of import reduced but this not linear.

I still think that the issue here is high expectations of PV solar and an analogue meter that was knocking off units as energy is being exported. The App and CT placement is only an adding to the OP’s confusion. It is a simple matter of reading the meter once a day to see import versus export.

The battery is charging from the grid when the solar is not generating because it is seeing the grid import as solar export. When the solar is generating the battery is exporting to the grid to try and cover the 'import' that it is seeing when the solar is in fact exporting. Reverse the CT then the 'import' becomes export from the solar and the battery charges correctly,  when the solar is not generating the battery will discharge to cover the actual import. 

[Deleted User]

chris_n said:

[Deleted User] said:

chris_n said:

Dolor said:

Putting the CT issue to one side for a moment, whether a CT is fitted on not makes no difference to what the smart meter is recording in the way of import and export. As I posted earlier, I still think that OP's confusion is down to an unrealistic expectation of the savings from a very small array and battery, and an old analogue meter that went backwards when electricity was exported. To put the above into context, an array that generates c.3000kWh/year is not going to knock 3000kWh/year off the import bill even with a small battery: probably, close to 2300kWh/year at best.

Yes, the OP could ask for a meter check but I suspect she would be wasting money if she does.

The incorrect CT orientation is more than likely making the battery charge from the grid when there is any load coming into the house, when the load drops below thresholds then the battery will discharge to grid. The manual states flows will be incorrect ( it actually says backfeeding) when the CT is the wrong way round.
The smart meter is only measuring the import (on that register) but that is then going into the battery then discharging to the grid. There is nothing wrong with the smart meter.

Swings and roundabouts. If the battery is charging from the grid then more solar is going to export. In terms of kW there may be a 10% difference,

If the OP was using 10kWh/day last Winter then this equates to 3650kWh/year. (I know slightly less lighting in the summer). The array is small so is the battery so in the round the OP might get 2/3 of import reduced but this not linear.

I still think that the issue here is high expectations of PV solar and an analogue meter that was knocking off units as energy is being exported. The App and CT placement is only an adding to the OP’s confusion. It is a simple matter of reading the meter once a day to see import versus export.

The battery is charging from the grid when the solar is not generating because it is seeing the grid import as solar export. When the solar is generating the battery is exporting to the grid to try and cover the 'import' that it is seeing when the solar is in fact exporting. Reverse the CT then the 'import' becomes export from the solar and the battery charges correctly,  when the solar is not generating the battery will discharge to cover the actual import. 

Energy whether it has come from the grid; solar or battery has to go somewhere. Playing around with CT clamps doesn’t change this basic equation. If the battery is on solar top up only, then fewer units will be exported. Conversely, if the battery is allowed to charge from the grid, then more units will be exported. The other given is there will be at least a 10% round trip loss if a battery is involved.

I can select export ALL on my Powerwall2. The battery will charge from the Grid between 2 and 5am and then discharge to the Grid from 4 to 7pm based on import and export prices. The house will then run on grid until 2am when the battery charges again. If I look at my smart meter, I get both import and export index increases.

Conversely, if I select solar only, my battery charges during the day with solar. Solar goes to the grid when the battery reaches 100% and the battery takes the load when the sun goes down. When I look at my smart meter there is no import but reduced export compared to grid to battery charging.

Bear in mind the OP has a very small array and battery. I have 6.35kWp and a 13.5kWh battery. CT clamps are just a distraction save for the fact that they change the import/export ratio.

matt_drummer

If their battery is constantly charging and discharging throughout the day it could be bumping up both the import and export.

As the smart separates the import and export the OP could be paying for lots of unneeded import and getting nothing for the export.

Of course, the energy has to go somewhere and I doubt the meter is lying, but what the OP pays for is important and that is what has alerted to them to the problem.

Its difficult to work out what the system is doing from the information provided. My incorrectly manufactured ct clamps didn't result in me importing any additional electricity but the OP's system may behave differently.

Petriix

[Deleted User] said:

chris_n said:

[Deleted User] said:

chris_n said:

Dolor said:

Putting the CT issue to one side for a moment, whether a CT is fitted on not makes no difference to what the smart meter is recording in the way of import and export. As I posted earlier, I still think that OP's confusion is down to an unrealistic expectation of the savings from a very small array and battery, and an old analogue meter that went backwards when electricity was exported. To put the above into context, an array that generates c.3000kWh/year is not going to knock 3000kWh/year off the import bill even with a small battery: probably, close to 2300kWh/year at best.

Yes, the OP could ask for a meter check but I suspect she would be wasting money if she does.

The incorrect CT orientation is more than likely making the battery charge from the grid when there is any load coming into the house, when the load drops below thresholds then the battery will discharge to grid. The manual states flows will be incorrect ( it actually says backfeeding) when the CT is the wrong way round.
The smart meter is only measuring the import (on that register) but that is then going into the battery then discharging to the grid. There is nothing wrong with the smart meter.

Swings and roundabouts. If the battery is charging from the grid then more solar is going to export. In terms of kW there may be a 10% difference,

If the OP was using 10kWh/day last Winter then this equates to 3650kWh/year. (I know slightly less lighting in the summer). The array is small so is the battery so in the round the OP might get 2/3 of import reduced but this not linear.

I still think that the issue here is high expectations of PV solar and an analogue meter that was knocking off units as energy is being exported. The App and CT placement is only an adding to the OP’s confusion. It is a simple matter of reading the meter once a day to see import versus export.

The battery is charging from the grid when the solar is not generating because it is seeing the grid import as solar export. When the solar is generating the battery is exporting to the grid to try and cover the 'import' that it is seeing when the solar is in fact exporting. Reverse the CT then the 'import' becomes export from the solar and the battery charges correctly,  when the solar is not generating the battery will discharge to cover the actual import. 

Energy whether it has come from the grid; solar or battery has to go somewhere. Playing around with CT clamps doesn’t change this basic equation. If the battery is on solar top up only, then fewer units will be exported. Conversely, if the battery is allowed to charge from the grid, then more units will be exported. The other given is there will be at least a 10% round trip loss if a battery is involved.

I can select export ALL on my Powerwall2. The battery will charge from the Grid between 2 and 5am and then discharge to the Grid from 4 to 7pm based on import and export prices. The house will then run on grid until 2am when the battery charges again. If I look at my smart meter, I get both import and export index increases.

Conversely, if I select solar only, my battery charges during the day with solar. Solar goes to the grid when the battery reaches 100% and the battery takes the load when the sun goes down. When I look at my smart meter there is no import but reduced export compared to grid to battery charging.

Bear in mind the OP has a very small array and battery. I have 6.35kWp and a 13.5kWh battery. CT clamps are just a distraction save for the fact that they change the import/export ratio.

You're spectacularly missing the point: the battery is likely dumping its entire charge as soon as there's any surplus solar, then it's immediately charging to full as soon as there's any net import. This could potentially happen multiple times per day, adding up to the ~ 150 kWh in a week since the meter was installed.