Administration and direct debit due

pinkshoes

I subscribe yearly to BakedIn which went into administration on 18th May 2023.

I pay yearly in advance for a baking box every month for 12 months, and my direct debit was supposed to go out out on 30th April for the next year, but they didn't take it. Instead they took 1/12th of the payment and then sent me the May baking box which I did receive.

As the direct debit should have been taken a couple of weeks before the company went into administration, can the administrators then insist the full payment is made?

I'm guessing at the end of April the company knew they were folding so rather than charge long standing customers their yearly fee which would have gone straight to pay debts, they decided to "be nice" and just take the amount for the 1 month they could still supply. 

I'm just wondering if the administrators will then try and claw back this money that was technically due? 

Aylesbury_Duck

I'm pleasantly surprised they acted like that - we usually hear tales of businesses maximising their income even though it appears they know where things are heading.

I suppose the administrators have a duty to maximise the pot from which creditors are paid, so they may try and enforce the contracts if that's how they were written.  Not much you can do except wait and see, I suppose.

pinkshoes

On the day of administration (before we knew about it) I received an email saying:

"as your subscription is currently up for renewal we've made the decision to only charge you for the May box as we are certain that we can successfully fulfil this box. We believe it's essential to avoid charging you for future boxes until we can guarantee their fulfilment". 

They had also emailed on the 17th saying they were having a tough time due to the cost of ingredients going up drastically in the last few months so the May boxes would be sent out at the end of the month instead. 

My account also has the May box written as a one off box, saying the subscription is from June. It says "your first subscription box will arrive mid-June". 

I guess I will have to wait and see. Perhaps my subscription actually counts from June and not May?!

born_again

Does the payment go via Direct Debit (using bank acc details) or is a CPA using you card details?

pinkshoes

born_again said:

Does the payment go via Direct Debit (using bank acc details) or is a CPA using you card details?

I'm pretty sure I would have input my card details. Probably debit card rather than credit card I think. I'll have a sift back through my bank statements...

Compo23

Glad they did the decent thing for you!

Very interesting to see this, as only I signed up in May - for full price for a year - and they took the whole payment. Whilst I am sorry for them (it was a good product! I had an expired sub a few months back) and the people who have lost jobs, it seems like fraud/misrepresentation for them to take a year's subscription knowing there "may" be issues.

I assume the money hasn't been ringfenced as their email didn't say anything useful about refunds etc.

I've done a chargeback but as it's via Curve who knows what success I'll get, they've typically not been the easiest to deal with either.

Also I raised the dispute on the basis that NO goods were received... now it seems they've dispatched a box with some "extra goodies", so that presumably means they can rebuff the "goods not received" argument... seems very sneaky to me.

Out of interest - if by some miracle my chargeback is successful, who pays?? Mastercard? It was on a debit card (if I'd have realised this was a possible issue, I'd have paid direct with a credit card for S75!!).

MorningcoffeeIV

Compo23 said:

Out of interest - if by some miracle my chargeback is successful, who pays?? Mastercard? 

A chargeback means the cost is reclaimed from the merchant, or from their bank if insufficient funds.

pinkshoes

Compo23 said:

Glad they did the decent thing for you!

Very interesting to see this, as only I signed up in May - for full price for a year - and they took the whole payment. Whilst I am sorry for them (it was a good product! I had an expired sub a few months back) and the people who have lost jobs, it seems like fraud/misrepresentation for them to take a year's subscription knowing there "may" be issues.

I assume the money hasn't been ringfenced as their email didn't say anything useful about refunds etc.

I've done a chargeback but as it's via Curve who knows what success I'll get, they've typically not been the easiest to deal with either.

Also I raised the dispute on the basis that NO goods were received... now it seems they've dispatched a box with some "extra goodies", so that presumably means they can rebuff the "goods not received" argument... seems very sneaky to me.

Out of interest - if by some miracle my chargeback is successful, who pays?? Mastercard? It was on a debit card (if I'd have realised this was a possible issue, I'd have paid direct with a credit card for S75!!).

When abouts in May did you sign up?

I guess as mine was a renewal they therefore only took the £7.50 instead of the full £90 (this was my 4th year of subscribing hence the lower price) as they knew they couldn't fulfil an entire order.

You should be successful with your card provider doing a chargeback as you have paid for an entire year but will probably only receive one box, so are not receiving goods paid for. They reverse the payment, although if you receive a box this should perhaps be 11/12ths of a payment!?

Make sure you log in and cancel the subscription!

Oddly, I've just received another email saying my order has been shipped as the £7.50 order was saying unfulfilled on my login, and it has now changed to fulfilled. I've already received the May box (rhubarb custard slices) so wonder if I'll now get another one?! 

I also paid for 6 months for my niece for Christmas, so at least they would have received 5 out of the 6 boxes.

I agree it was a good product! I'm going to miss the monthly boxes as I don't bother baking otherwise! The struggled with the cost of lots of ingredients going up so I think lots cancelled as it made it too expensive!

born_again

Compo23 said:

Glad they did the decent thing for you!

Very interesting to see this, as only I signed up in May - for full price for a year - and they took the whole payment. Whilst I am sorry for them (it was a good product! I had an expired sub a few months back) and the people who have lost jobs, it seems like fraud/misrepresentation for them to take a year's subscription knowing there "may" be issues.

I assume the money hasn't been ringfenced as their email didn't say anything useful about refunds etc.

I've done a chargeback but as it's via Curve who knows what success I'll get, they've typically not been the easiest to deal with either.

Also I raised the dispute on the basis that NO goods were received... now it seems they've dispatched a box with some "extra goodies", so that presumably means they can rebuff the "goods not received" argument... seems very sneaky to me.

Out of interest - if by some miracle my chargeback is successful, who pays?? Mastercard? It was on a debit card (if I'd have realised this was a possible issue, I'd have paid direct with a credit card for S75!!).

They are trying to save the company at that point. Which only a select few people may know about. (staff are the last to know) So they carry on as normal. 
If every company that had issues, stopped taking bookings etc then they would fail even quicker, as no one would want to bail them out. Knowing they have a good order book.

If you have charged back the whole amount then it could well fail, if they contest on the basis they have sent goods this month.
Which sadly means you have lost the chance if they do fold later to chargeback again. As you only get one chance.

tightauldgit

born_again said:

Compo23 said:

Glad they did the decent thing for you!

Very interesting to see this, as only I signed up in May - for full price for a year - and they took the whole payment. Whilst I am sorry for them (it was a good product! I had an expired sub a few months back) and the people who have lost jobs, it seems like fraud/misrepresentation for them to take a year's subscription knowing there "may" be issues.

I assume the money hasn't been ringfenced as their email didn't say anything useful about refunds etc.

I've done a chargeback but as it's via Curve who knows what success I'll get, they've typically not been the easiest to deal with either.

Also I raised the dispute on the basis that NO goods were received... now it seems they've dispatched a box with some "extra goodies", so that presumably means they can rebuff the "goods not received" argument... seems very sneaky to me.

Out of interest - if by some miracle my chargeback is successful, who pays?? Mastercard? It was on a debit card (if I'd have realised this was a possible issue, I'd have paid direct with a credit card for S75!!).

They are trying to save the company at that point. Which only a select few people may know about. (staff are the last to know) So they carry on as normal. 
If every company that had issues, stopped taking bookings etc then they would fail even quicker, as no one would want to bail them out. Knowing they have a good order book.

If you have charged back the whole amount then it could well fail, if they contest on the basis they have sent goods this month.
Which sadly means you have lost the chance if they do fold later to chargeback again. As you only get one chance.

I'm not quite sure where the 'trading while insolvent' line falls but I'd certainly not be happy if (and it's only an if because I'm not clear on the timing) they were taking 12 month subs from one set of customers while not taking them from others because they aren't sure they can fulfil them. 

pinkshoes

tightauldgit said:

I'm not quite sure where the 'trading while insolvent' line falls but I'd certainly not be happy if (and it's only an if because I'm not clear on the timing) they were taking 12 month subs from one set of customers while not taking them from others because they aren't sure they can fulfil them. 

I think it's more that because I was an existing customer so they didn't renew my subscription as they couldn't fulfil it (e.g. it was up to them to take the money as per the contract), but in the case of @Compo23 they handed over the money themselves by signing up. 

I think they have been running on skeleton staff so had kept the website running to sell off all remaining stock, but didn't disable the bit preventing any new subscriptions.