Used car guarantee - intermittent fault

itgirlinuk

We bought a used Honda car on 17th March 2023 from a used car dealer which came with 3 months warranty and 12 months AA breakdown cover. The dealer is not registered with Motor Ombudsman organisation. We had a RAC comprehensive check done before we bought the car, which didn't show up any serious faults. 

Over the last week or so, a number of issues have arisen, all of which annoyingly are to a greater or lesser degree intermittent - the air bag lights come on sometimes, and the car alarm has started to go off without any disturbance and few nights ago we have had to leave our car unlocked as it the alarm kept going off through the evening. And take the risk. We tried switching off the alarm sensor and locking the car, but that didn't do the trick either.

We called the dealer about this on yesterday (29th May), and arrange to return the car to him for checking and fixing.

We don't feel confident that the dealer is trustworthy, and given the issues are intermittent, are half-expecting him to come back and say either that no issues were detected during the diagnostics, or that they have done a couple of things and all seems fine, when it may well not be.

It's a 2 hour drive to the garage, and 3 hours back by public transport, and the dealer knows this.

So unless he stuns us and says they have found the issues and are going to fix them all, we are trying to work what our options are if he comes back with something that does not or risks not solving the problems.

We would be happy to take a refund, less a fair amount for depreciation for miles done since purchase.  But we don't expect he will go for this, unless we accept a poor price for depreciation, which we won't.

According to Citizen's advice bureau's website, we have a right to a full refund within the first 3 months. If we get it repaired by the dealer, it says we will have to take a depreciated price if we want a refund after repair.

So my questions are:

1. Can we ask for a full refund given it's an intermittent issue and they might not be able to diagnose or fix it properly? Given we have only 1 more month left on the warranty, I am worried the dealer will do something simple, fob us off to buy some more time.

2. If we can't get a refund, could we ask / suggest / insist that he takes the car to a Honda garage to run diagnostics? Maybe a proper dealership will be able to diagnose it better than a local mechanic he uses.

3. Following up from above, if the dealer's mechanic or the Honda dealership finds issues, do we have to accept the repair or can we ask for a refund?

4. Will the refund he offers under any of the circumstances listed above, be less than the full amount we paid?

Any thoughts / knowledge / experience in this area would be appreciated.

Many thanks

ontheroad1970

You've been ill advised.  There is only a right to return in the first month, unless the issue has been raised before and within the first month.  There is an element on consumer law about faults existing within 6 months where the retailer has to prove they weren't there, but this is tempered with used cars by age, mileage and condition on purchase.  At certain ends of the market you get traders you use tools to switch off warning lights.  If the airbag light comes on and stays on after ignition at MOT time, it will fail.

While I might  be tempted to travel some distance for a car still within its manufacturer's warranty (not after market) to save a decent amount of money, I would not be travelling far for a used car, as there is too much probability of there being issues, and the dealer isn't responsible for your travel expenses and inconvenience.  

Herzlos

How did you buy the car - was it delivered unseen or did you travel to it? You could make the argument that it's the dealers responsibility to take the car back from where it was given to you, but they may not agree.

The dealer has a right to attempt a repair first, but intermittent faults are a pain to deal with. Let them try first, and then you can press for a refund if it's still going wrong. If you can record evidence of the failures then that'll be better for you to show them and prove later.

What is the car and what age is it?

Goudy

Both of those could be battery related and a simple check/fix.

If the battery voltage drops under a specific target, it thinks the car is being attacked so the alarm goes off.

Also, a weak battery can play havoc with SRS (airbag system), electric power steering, anything electrical really.

The issues might only seem intermittent but there might be a pattern, like it all starts playing up when left overnight or a day or two, or after a few short trips with repeated starting.

It not uncommon to suffer battery maladies after buying a used car if it's been stood a while waiting to be sold, particularly if it's a few years old and still on it's original battery.
You often see car dealers wheeling about big heavy jump starter packs and leads, once it's started and running, they don't care anymore.

You might want to try getting the battery and charging system properly tested.
The battery really needs testing for volts and amps. (amps are important, so make sure they test for them, not just volts)
A local garage should be able to test them out in a matter of minutes. Halfords can do this but they'd probably sell you a new battery anyway.


 

born_again

itgirlinuk said:

We bought a used Honda car on 17th March 2023 from a used car dealer which came with 3 months warranty and 12 months AA breakdown cover. The dealer is not registered with Motor Ombudsman organisation. We had a RAC comprehensive check done before we bought the car, which didn't show up any serious faults. 

Over the last week or so, a number of issues have arisen, all of which annoyingly are to a greater or lesser degree intermittent - the air bag lights come on sometimes, and the car alarm has started to go off without any disturbance and few nights ago we have had to leave our car unlocked as it the alarm kept going off through the evening. And take the risk. We tried switching off the alarm sensor and locking the car, but that didn't do the trick either.

We called the dealer about this on yesterday (29th May), and arrange to return the car to him for checking and fixing.

We don't feel confident that the dealer is trustworthy, and given the issues are intermittent, are half-expecting him to come back and say either that no issues were detected during the diagnostics, or that they have done a couple of things and all seems fine, when it may well not be.

It's a 2 hour drive to the garage, and 3 hours back by public transport, and the dealer knows this.

So unless he stuns us and says they have found the issues and are going to fix them all, we are trying to work what our options are if he comes back with something that does not or risks not solving the problems.

We would be happy to take a refund, less a fair amount for depreciation for miles done since purchase.  But we don't expect he will go for this, unless we accept a poor price for depreciation, which we won't.

According to Citizen's advice bureau's website, we have a right to a full refund within the first 3 months. If we get it repaired by the dealer, it says we will have to take a depreciated price if we want a refund after repair.

So my questions are:

1. Can we ask for a full refund given it's an intermittent issue and they might not be able to diagnose or fix it properly? Given we have only 1 more month left on the warranty, I am worried the dealer will do something simple, fob us off to buy some more time.

2. If we can't get a refund, could we ask / suggest / insist that he takes the car to a Honda garage to run diagnostics? Maybe a proper dealership will be able to diagnose it better than a local mechanic he uses.

3. Following up from above, if the dealer's mechanic or the Honda dealership finds issues, do we have to accept the repair or can we ask for a refund?

4. Will the refund he offers under any of the circumstances listed above, be less than the full amount we paid?

Any thoughts / knowledge / experience in this area would be appreciated.

Many thanks

You need to give them a chance to fix it, then you could/might look at rejecting.
They should be able to do checks while you wait, but this is the danger of purchasing a car a long way from home. 

But you have made no mention of cost, age or mileage of the car. Which can temper any action.

itgirlinuk

ontheroad1970 said:

You've been ill advised.  There is only a right to return in the first month, unless the issue has been raised before and within the first month.  There is an element on consumer law about faults existing within 6 months where the retailer has to prove they weren't there, but this is tempered with used cars by age, mileage and condition on purchase.

OK. If its within the first 6 months, what sort of documentation do they have to show to prove the fault didn't exist? We got a RAC check done and it says that electrical faults can't always be identified with that check. So, how could I as a buyer figured this out?

Herzlos said:

How did you buy the car - was it delivered unseen or did you travel to it? You could make the argument that it's the dealers responsibility to take the car back from where it was given to you, but they may not agree.

The dealer has a right to attempt a repair first, but intermittent faults are a pain to deal with. Let them try first, and then you can press for a refund if it's still going wrong. If you can record evidence of the failures then that'll be better for you to show them and prove later.

What is the car and what age is it?

We went and picked it up. And I guess other than waiting for it happen (within the 6 months) looks like there is nothing much to do. Can I say it's not fit for purpose or not in satisfactory condition for an intermittent problem?

Goudy said:

You might want to try getting the battery and charging system properly tested.
The battery really needs testing for volts and amps. (amps are important, so make sure they test for them, not just volts)
A local garage should be able to test them out in a matter of minutes. Halfords can do this but they'd probably sell you a new battery anyway.


 

Will this negate the warranty with the dealer I bought the car from - if I get this done independently? My worry is he will say that he cannot cover the costs of this investigation and if I get it fixed, he won't repair it going forward.

sheramber

If you don't  think the dealer is trustworthy why did you travel  2hours to buy a car from him?

born_again

itgirlinuk said:

 

Will this negate the warranty with the dealer I bought the car from - if I get this done independently? My worry is he will say that he cannot cover the costs of this investigation and if I get it fixed, he won't repair it going forward.

Most place will do a free check.
Even if you have to pay, it gives you something to work with them about. 
No a check will not affect anything. Having any work done to fix a problem without their permission will.