Second-hand smoke from ground-floor flat below seeping into our flat

theforgetfulone

I've recently moved into a first-floor flat and it's obvious that our neighbour in the ground floor flat directly below smokes indoors. The smell reaches our bathrooms, hallway and kitchen (though thankfully, the bedrooms which are connected by the hallway towards the front and back of the house seem smoke-free). We're not sure how exactly though my flatmate says that the smell was even worse before she had the pipes sealed, so we think there might still be partial leakage from there and/or the smoke fumes are seeping in through the vents in the kitchen and bathroom? I can smell it particularly strongly when I open one of the kitchen cupboards located near the ground, next to the fridge-freezer. Apart from somehow stopping him smoking inside his flat altogether (fat chance, I think), is there some other way we can identify and eliminate the odour at source altogether? I've made enquiries at some cigarette smoke odour removal companies, which I know mainly defumigate rental properties where the previous tenant has smoked, but wonder if they know how to consistently keep it out by closing off any leaks. Also, I believe he's a leaseholder of the flat, so I guess it's legal for him to smoke inside his own home but we just want to stop the carcinogens getting into our flat.

FreeBear

Concrete or timber floor ?

With a concrete floor, just go round plugging all the gaps where pipes & cables disappear down - Expanding foam is good for plugging gaps. If you use a foam gun, you can poke the end into tight gaps. The cans with a bendy bit of tube on the top of the can is an all or nothing squirt, and difficult to control.

Timber floor, a bit more difficult - I'd be tempted to put a plastic sheet (Radon barrier or DPM) down on top of the floorboards, and then lay carpet/laminate. Sealing round edges is not so easy...

Jonboy_1984

Essentially you are looking for and plugging draughts. 

You could possibly use a burning incense stick to slowly work your way around the edges, looking at the smoke pattern.

ThisIsWeird

Process of elimination, it looks like. I'd start with trying to remove the plinths from the kitchen base units and seeing if there are gaps along the wall-floor join, missing skirting boards, for example.

If there are, then vacuum the area, moisten with a water spray, and spray a bead of expanding foam as tight along the join as you can - should be quite reachable from the front of the units.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't be concerned about the health aspect - it must surely be too dilute for this - but I bet the stink is insufferable.

theforgetfulone

Thank you all for your replies. I replied earlier but my post got filtered for some reason (even though there was nothing dodgy in it!).

FreeBear said:

Concrete or timber floor ?

With a concrete floor, just go round plugging all the gaps where pipes & cables disappear down - Expanding foam is good for plugging gaps. If you use a foam gun, you can poke the end into tight gaps. The cans with a bendy bit of tube on the top of the can is an all or nothing squirt, and difficult to control.

Timber floor, a bit more difficult - I'd be tempted to put a plastic sheet (Radon barrier or DPM) down on top of the floorboards, and then lay carpet/laminate. Sealing round edges is not so easy...

I wasn't sure but have been told that it's all timber in the bathroom and kitchen (then the hallway and bedrooms have a carpet overlay). Would I just need to lay down the radon barrier or DPM without needing to hold it in place with anything (because presumably, the carpet will do that anyway)? What would you suggest for sealing around the edges?

ThisIsWeird said:

Process of elimination, it looks like. I'd start with trying to remove the plinths from the kitchen base units and seeing if there are gaps along the wall-floor join, missing skirting boards, for example.

If there are, then vacuum the area, moisten with a water spray, and spray a bead of expanding foam as tight along the join as you can - should be quite reachable from the front of the units.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't be concerned about the health aspect - it must surely be too dilute for this - but I bet the stink is insufferable.

Ok, so I'm a complete DIY noob and would prefer to get a professional to survey the flat and do this if necessary, also because I want to make sure the issue is completely resolved. Do you know where I could find an expert who can do this sort of thing?

Yeah, it reeks! Surely, the dilution is the same as when walking past a smoker on the street (or worse, directly behind one) because it's the same smoke seeping in - I guess it depends on the number and size of the leaks though?

ThisIsWeird

The actual quantity of smoke managing to percolate through, and which will then be diluted by the air volume of your flat, must be tiny. I suspect, for example, folk don't smell it on your clothes when you go out? I say that purely to suggest that it's unlikely to be a health hazard, so that you shouldn't worry about this - whilst you still get it sorted.

Because it sounds hellish. Ciggie smoke stinks. It's an absolute imposition that no-one should have to put up with. We are all entitled to have a reasonable level of peaceful enjoyment in our home, without it being impacted by the inconsiderate behaviour of others. (Having said that, the person in the flat below is just a pitiful nicotine addict, and not knowingly an anti-social twit).

Surely this is a fault with the flat, just as if smoke from an adjoining chimney was coming back down into yours? So, I wonder if this is an issue that should be brought to the attention of the Freeholder?

The steps forward will likely be the same, tho' - a pro surveyor as you suggest? But, no idea if this would need to be a specialist in this area - do they exist?! Likely not.

For a potential solution, I'm guessing tackling each room in turn, starting with the most smelly. Floor coverings up, an impermeable membrane laid down, trimmed to a cm more that the floor area, tucked right under the skirting board gap, and sealed with a bead of sealant. Invisible, and draught proof. 

Bigphil1474

Have you spoken to the person in the flat below? They may not even know that the smell percolates up to you. Not that you can insist they stop smoking (although maybe they just need a bit of encouragement), but they might agree to just smoke in one particular room etc. or at least help you find out how the smell is getting through. They could be perfectly reasonable about it.

Annisele

You could try a HEPA air filter. When we lived in a flat ours did a good job of removing the smell of our neighbour's cannabis smoking, so I suspect it would also do a reasonable job with cigarettes.

I accept that that doesn't solve the problem of the smoke getting into your flat in the first place, but it does mitigate the irritation.

theforgetfulone

Thanks all for your helpful replies again.

ThisIsWeird said:

The actual quantity of smoke managing to percolate through, and which will then be diluted by the air volume of your flat, must be tiny. I suspect, for example, folk don't smell it on your clothes when you go out? I say that purely to suggest that it's unlikely to be a health hazard, so that you shouldn't worry about this - whilst you still get it sorted.

Because it sounds hellish. Ciggie smoke stinks. It's an absolute imposition that no-one should have to put up with. We are all entitled to have a reasonable level of peaceful enjoyment in our home, without it being impacted by the inconsiderate behaviour of others. (Having said that, the person in the flat below is just a pitiful nicotine addict, and not knowingly an anti-social twit).

Surely this is a fault with the flat, just as if smoke from an adjoining chimney was coming back down into yours? So, I wonder if this is an issue that should be brought to the attention of the Freeholder?

The steps forward will likely be the same, tho' - a pro surveyor as you suggest? But, no idea if this would need to be a specialist in this area - do they exist?! Likely not.

For a potential solution, I'm guessing tackling each room in turn, starting with the most smelly. Floor coverings up, an impermeable membrane laid down, trimmed to a cm more that the floor area, tucked right under the skirting board gap, and sealed with a bead of sealant. Invisible, and draught proof. 

Our flat is quite small but yes, you can't smell it on our clothes when we go out. Thanks for the reassurance. I was worried that we're basically just sitting ducks and our risk of cancer, heart disease etc. was increasing with every passing minute we spend inside our own flat. It's ridiculous that I can't even breathe when I'm at home. It's unbearable. I'm somewhat envious of Sweden, which has become the first country to become 'smoke-free' (defined as having fewer than 5% of daily smokers in the population).

Also, I'm also baffled that smoking is legal in private homes - surely there's a fire risk?

Good point about a potential fault with the flat though I would have thought that would have been picked up by any property survey when my flatmate bought the flat, or do they only check the purely structural aspect of it? You're right though - it might be worth taking it up with the freeholder.

I checked with a cigarette odour removal service company to see if their remit also expands to surveying and eliminating the odour at source altogether. One said they only do removal. The other said they could get someone to survey but I'm still waiting to hear back from them. There also seems to be a house fire safety survey that the local fire department can come out to do but again, I'd need to check whether they can also help with this sort of thing.

One of my friends suggested covering up the vents in the kitchen and bathroom in the meantime, so I might try that as a quick first step before moving onto the floor area because the stink is that bad I'm desperate. The flat is all electric so there are no fuel burning appliances that might make it unsafe but she suggested making sure I'm in the flat just in case.

Bigphil1474 said:

Have you spoken to the person in the flat below? They may not even know that the smell percolates up to you. Not that you can insist they stop smoking (although maybe they just need a bit of encouragement), but they might agree to just smoke in one particular room etc. or at least help you find out how the smell is getting through. They could be perfectly reasonable about it.

I've not met this person yet, no but I also don't want to come across as being the 'awkward newbie' as I've just moved in and am practically asking him to change an ingrained habit. Ultimately, I might have to talk to him (certainly before I potentially go down any indirect formal routes) and ask politely that he smokes outdoors in the communal garden perhaps. Having spoken to another neighbour, it seems I'm unlikely to get any change out of him as he's apparently an old-school chain smoker. He says he's probably unlikely to be unpleasant about it but will probably not stop smoking indoors either. On the other hand, he might be horrified that the smell is coming up to our flat but what are the chances? My flatmate says he barely leaves his flat other than to do his weekly food shop. 

Annisele said:

You could try a HEPA air filter. When we lived in a flat ours did a good job of removing the smell of our neighbour's cannabis smoking, so I suspect it would also do a reasonable job with cigarettes.

I accept that that doesn't solve the problem of the smoke getting into your flat in the first place, but it does mitigate the irritation.

I bought a Blue Air 411 air purifier which worked when I was renting a previous apartment as my neighbour on the ground floor also occasionally smoked indoors - can't get away from them these days! - but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as there was a gap separating our apartments. So it could only be smelt in the communal entrance area of the building, in my hallway area and very partially through the vent in the bathroom but the ceilings were quite high and it was quite a big room, so it wasn't too noticeable.

Not sure if it has a HEPA air filter but I think I need a better air purifier as it only works for rooms up to 16 square metres and it practically has no effect as far as I can tell because the smell is still so strong.