EPC Rating F - help!!!

NikiSZD

I have a lovely (all electric) 1 bedroom flat that I want to rent out. All was going well ... until the EPC check. My property was given an F rating meaning I can't legally rent it out. I was given just 3 recommendations to improve the rating:

1. flat roof or sloping ceiling insulation (not an option)
2. cavity wall insulation (not an option)
3. high heat retention storage heaters (looks like my ONLY option)

While renovating the property in 2020 I spent £10k installing a Fischer Future Heat Aquaefficient hot water system plus their panel radiators which are individually controlled by their own thermostats so I'm hugely disappointed that I'll have to look at changing them for what I believe to be backward-looking storage heaters.

I did message Fischer who replied with some information that indicated that although panel heaters are currently rated below storage heaters they have independent reports from BSRIA, BRE & Energy Saving Trust which show that their heaters are more efficient than the storage heaters. I had hoped to add the link they sent me but as I'm a newbie on here I'm not able.

They said they've been lobbying the government and their local MP Liz Kendall to recognise their heaters and to classify them at the very least equal to storage heaters.

They also mentioned that "landlords can apply for a 5 year exemption if they have Fischer Heaters however, we are unable to guarantee that the government bodies would accept this application". I did go on to the gov.uk EPC exemptions page to try to do this but it doesn't look as though any of the options available would permit this so that's another non-starter.

Does anyone have any helpful advice to offer me please? We're forever being told there's a shortage of homes to rent but things like this aren't helping. Surely it would be better to offer lower banded homes but perhaps with a rent cap to make it more affordable for renters? And I'm advised that if my heating and hot water system were gas I'd have a higher rating (I only need to go up by 1 band) but how can that make sense when gas is being phased out and electricity is considered the greener option?

Sorry to be ranting but I'm just so upset and frustrated to have come so far but now feel at a dead end with getting my otherwise lovely property on to the market.

MultiFuelBurner

What did your Fischer £10k system replace? A nice and economical economy 7 system?

In my opinion you may have been mis-sold this system, who sold it to you and what promises did they make (ideally with proof)

Second option is you have made a mistake with what you chose as your hot water and heating system.

ProDave

I share a low opinion of these heaters as well.  Anyone who claims their electric panel heater is more efficient than a different make of electric panel heater is telling lies.  They all give 1kW of heat out for each 1kW of electricity in.

It might, just might, be true that heating with real time panel heaters uses less electricity than storage heaters, but it will cost you more because they are using peak rate electricity.  The whole point of storage heaters is to shift the electricity usage to cheaper times i.e. over night.

I very much doubt changing the type of heating system used on it's own will gain you enough points to get your EPC good enough.

Your only real long term solution is spend the considerable £££ to upgrade the insulation of the property.  Failing that. sell it now to an owner occupier before they all realise poor EPC = high heating costs and reduce how much they are prepared to pay for it.

Slinky

I've no idea whether it would work or not, but ther seems to be a lot of 'assumed' with EPCs. For the sake of confirmation, or a better result, would it be worth paying for another from a different provider?

silvercar

There are many exemptions. Consents and excessive costs to comply are two.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-rented-sector-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-exemptions/guidance-on-prs-exemptions-and-exemptions-register-evidence-requirements

theartfullodger

insulate ceiling and walls (internal wall insulation).  Throw out the fancy system (not surprised this resulted in terrible EPC) and replace with storage rads.  Never understood why people blow funds on Fischer.

still have the wiring and meter for storage rads?

You just might find that if you rent it to council they can legally rent to their (not yours) tenant.  But i wouldn't for the many well understood reasons.

Had 3 houses with storage rads (no gas for 46 miles).  All EPCs not a problem.  Frozen north 

Or sell it.

Murphybear

I live in sheltered housing and they have just replaced our old storage heaters with Dimplex Quantum storage heaters.  They are totally controllable during the day and Dimplex estimate they cost up to 40% less to run.  Plus they are smaller than the old ones and look smarter.  

I won’t know how good they are until the winter but I have been here 5 years and only used the heating once.  (The house is solidly built, well insulated and Dorset is very mild)

robatwork

Slinky said:

I've no idea whether it would work or not, but ther seems to be a lot of 'assumed' with EPCs. For the sake of confirmation, or a better result, would it be worth paying for another from a different provider?

Wouldn't it be amazing if another EPC with a different provider came it at an "E"?

Answer: No

Section62

NikiSZD said:

While renovating the property in 2020 I spent £10k installing a Fischer Future Heat Aquaefficient hot water system plus their panel radiators which are individually controlled by their own thermostats so I'm hugely disappointed that I'll have to look at changing them for what I believe to be backward-looking storage heaters.

Why do you believe they are "backward-looking"?  Is that something Fischer specifically told you?

There's nothing backward-looking about storage of energy at times where it is plentiful and/or cheap.  The 'future' energy needs of the country will depend on more storage, not less.  Some of that storage will be in the form of batteries, in other cases in the form of heat stores of various kinds.  Storage heaters are just one type of the latter.  Unfortunately clever marketing across the industry has been giving the inaccurate impression storage heaters are inefficient and outdated.

NikiSZD said:

I did message Fischer who replied with some information that indicated that although panel heaters are currently rated below storage heaters they have independent reports from BSRIA, BRE & Energy Saving Trust which show that their heaters are more efficient than the storage heaters. I had hoped to add the link they sent me but as I'm a newbie on here I'm not able.

I think there are probably a lot of people who would be interested to see these reports.

NikiSZD said:

Does anyone have any helpful advice to offer me please? We're forever being told there's a shortage of homes to rent but things like this aren't helping. Surely it would be better to offer lower banded homes but perhaps with a rent cap to make it more affordable for renters? And I'm advised that if my heating and hot water system were gas I'd have a higher rating (I only need to go up by 1 band) but how can that make sense when gas is being phased out and electricity is considered the greener option?

It makes sense because from a homeowner/renter's perspective, the cost of heating a home is as important (probably more so) than the environmental impact.  In any event, the environmental impact of electricity generation is affected by peaks and troughs in supply and demand.

Non-storage heaters consume most of their electicity at times where the heating is needed, which for a lot of the year coincides with the peaks in electricity consumption for other domestic uses. The net effect on the grid (currently) is the need to burn more gas (and some coal) to meet demand.  Electricity is only "greener" where it is generated by more sources that produce less pollution.

So ditching a gas boiler and replacing it with non-storage panel heaters isn't all that "green".  It will reduce pollution at the local level, but at the macro level nothing of significance is gained by burning gas in a power station to generate electricity to replace the output of a domestic gas boiler.

Meanwhile, the cost of heating a home with standard/daytime electricity is one of the more expensive methods and will remain so well into the future.

NikiSZD said:

Sorry to be ranting but I'm just so upset and frustrated to have come so far but now feel at a dead end with getting my otherwise lovely property on to the market.

I'd think carefully before going down the exemption route.  An exemption won't make it cheaper to run the heating, and if you have a tenant who doesn't understand how expensive it is to heat with daytime electricity you are likely to have problems with them.  You may find the only prospective tenants you can find are those with money to burn or those coming to the UK from very cold climates.

If the real-world cost of keeping this flat warm is too expensive then you are likely to have a high level of churn of tenants - good for the agent finding you replacement tenants, bad for you.  It may be more economic for you to replace the Fischer heaters with something that prospective tenants will find more acceptable.

There's a long thread (albeit quieter in recent months) detailing the issues people have had with Fischer heaters, and several other threads on the forum if you do a search.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3516223/fischer-storage-heaters/p1

NikiSZD

MultiFuelBurner said:

What did your Fischer £10k system replace? A nice and economical economy 7 system?

In my opinion you may have been mis-sold this system, who sold it to you and what promises did they make (ideally with proof)

Second option is you have made a mistake with what you chose as your hot water and heating system.

Haha I certainly wouldn't have called what I replaced it with "nice" in any way! There was an 8' tall storage heater that took up an entire cupboard, it had asbestos in it, the wiring turned out to be dangerous and it was the original unit from 1970. Regarding the instant hot water system I chose what would I have (in your opinion) have been better to go for? Genuine question.

NikiSZD

Slinky said:

I've no idea whether it would work or not, but ther seems to be a lot of 'assumed' with EPCs. For the sake of confirmation, or a better result, would it be worth paying for another from a different provider?

Unfortunately (for me) it doesn't work like that. The original company who did the assessment explained to me that they personally have no say over the results as they literally input the information and it spits out the rating according to what you have. As nothing will have changed since the first visit, nothing can change from another opinion of the same system. Thank you for the suggestion though.