Is it worth applying pressure or am I being messed about?

gazfocus

Still no news from anyone on our sale. My solicitor says my buyers solicitor is still dealing with enquiries from their buyers, estate agent is waiting for (and chasing) news from our buyers also. I'm really tempted to ring the EA tomorrow and instruct them to put the house back on the market.

TBG01

gazfocus said:

billy2shots said:

Will the people buying the property in question be happy to proceed with things still up in the air. 

Buying a house without knowing what is or isn't legally yours would be a no from me. 

Or are we only talking about a few foot of unused garden space?

According to the estate agents, the buyer at the bottom of the chain aren't bothered about the garden discrepancy as they've obviously offered on the house based on the garden that's within the physical boundary. I don't know how much garden we are talking about but I can't imagine it'd be that much given where the house is. 

Simple then. Get them to stump up the purchase in cash. That way the lenders security isn't at risk.

You might not appreciate it, but the Solicitor is also acting for the lender and their best interests. They're not going to risk that relationship just so Mr & Mrs Joe Bloggs can get their 'dream' home.

gazfocus

TBG01 said:

gazfocus said:

billy2shots said:

Will the people buying the property in question be happy to proceed with things still up in the air. 

Buying a house without knowing what is or isn't legally yours would be a no from me. 

Or are we only talking about a few foot of unused garden space?

According to the estate agents, the buyer at the bottom of the chain aren't bothered about the garden discrepancy as they've obviously offered on the house based on the garden that's within the physical boundary. I don't know how much garden we are talking about but I can't imagine it'd be that much given where the house is. 

Simple then. Get them to stump up the purchase in cash. That way the lenders security isn't at risk.

You might not appreciate it, but the Solicitor is also acting for the lender and their best interests. They're not going to risk that relationship just so Mr & Mrs Joe Bloggs can get their 'dream' home.

We all know that’s not likely to happen.

I appreciate that the solicitor is also acting for the lender but it’s the amount of time it’s taken to get what is a simple decision. I know the lender has probably hundreds of cases to deal with but 6 weeks to answer the first query and likely 6 weeks again this time, is absolutely ridiculous. The buyers at the bottom of the chain (whose lender is being really slow) already have a mortgage offer but that expires at the beginning of august, say their lender extends the offer due to this delay which is of their own making, doesn’t mean our buyers mortgage offer will get extended. 

Remember, today is 19 weeks from when we accepted the offer so this is getting really testing now. 

TBG01

gazfocus said:

TBG01 said:

gazfocus said:

billy2shots said:

Will the people buying the property in question be happy to proceed with things still up in the air. 

Buying a house without knowing what is or isn't legally yours would be a no from me. 

Or are we only talking about a few foot of unused garden space?

According to the estate agents, the buyer at the bottom of the chain aren't bothered about the garden discrepancy as they've obviously offered on the house based on the garden that's within the physical boundary. I don't know how much garden we are talking about but I can't imagine it'd be that much given where the house is. 

Simple then. Get them to stump up the purchase in cash. That way the lenders security isn't at risk.

You might not appreciate it, but the Solicitor is also acting for the lender and their best interests. They're not going to risk that relationship just so Mr & Mrs Joe Bloggs can get their 'dream' home.

We all know that’s not likely to happen.

I appreciate that the solicitor is also acting for the lender but it’s the amount of time it’s taken to get what is a simple decision. I know the lender has probably hundreds of cases to deal with but 6 weeks to answer the first query and likely 6 weeks again this time, is absolutely ridiculous. The buyers at the bottom of the chain (whose lender is being really slow) already have a mortgage offer but that expires at the beginning of august, say their lender extends the offer due to this delay which is of their own making, doesn’t mean our buyers mortgage offer will get extended. 

Remember, today is 19 weeks from when we accepted the offer so this is getting really testing now. 

The lender owes you nothing. You don't know the banks timescales. What you think might be a simple decision likely goes through and needs signed off by multiple departments, would you happily hand over hundreds of thousands of pounds willy nilly?

An average 'straight forward' transaction takes 12 - 15 weeks. This isn't a 'straight forward' transaction.

Tiglet2

gazfocus said:

Another brief update: The estate agent phoned me on Tuesday to say that the mortgage lender had come back to the buyer at the bottom of the chain to say they were not happy with the issue that was queried. Apparently, it relates to something to do with the physical boundary of the property not matching the title plan, but got lost as to how. 

A suggestion has now been made that completion be allowed to happen now, with an undertaking from the solicitor to resolve the land issue after completion - this is because apparently it will be quite a complex problem to solve, involving finding another land owner, letting them get legal advice, signing over of land, getting land registry records updated, etc so could potentially add months to the sale. This would almost certainly result in the chain collapsing as I certainly wouldn't be willing to wait months further and I know the buyers at the bottom of the chain have an expiry date on their mortgage offer of beginning of August.

I'm not entirely sure who now needs to make the decision but we are now waiting for a decision as to whether this proposal is acceptable, but we shall see...

This is complex. 

The solicitor acting for the buyer's buyer's buyer is also acting for their lender.  The lender relies on the advice of the solicitor and the solicitor is not happy that the title plan doesn't match the physical boundary so has advised the lender of the discrepancy and the lender has decided not to lend until the discrepancy has been dealt with.  Bear in mind lenders can and do change their mind about whether to lend, even after a mortgage offer has been issued.

The easiest solution would be for the physical boundary to be moved to match the title plan, but does this mean the property's value is affected and therefore the property would need its price adjusting, together with a new mortgage offer at a lower/higher amount.

Or, was a piece of land not transferred when the property was last sold, which would involve obtaining a previous owner's agreement and signature on a new Transfer form to transfer the missing plot to the new owner?

Either way, this transaction won't move forward until this discrepancy is dealt with to the satisfaction of the solicitor and the lender, so unfortunately your transaction will have to wait, no matter how desperate you and the other buyers in the chain are and regardless of when your mortgage offers expire.

It is unlikely that a purchasing solicitor will agree to accept an Undertaking from the sellers solicitor to assist in any requisitions from Land Registry after completion (no matter what your EA tells you!).  At the moment it is the selling solicitor's problem.  The buying solicitor and the buying lender would be reluctant to make it their problem.

Tiglet2

Mr.Generous said:

I think solicitors take an oath to hold up and delay things for as long as possible in every job they deal with.

Absolutely rubbish.

The solicitor is duty bound to act in the best interests of their client and the lender.  That means sorting out title discrepancies so they have done their job properly (and not get sued in the future),  the lender is protected and the client has purchased a good and marketable title.

simon_or

I don't blame your buyers (or their buyers) as they can't really do anything without their solicitor and bank being happy to proceed. But there's only so long you can wait.

I think you should just give the buyers a final deadline and if they don't meet it, pull out and remarket. These kind of things can go on and on with no resolution. 

gazfocus

Tiglet2 said:

gazfocus said:

Another brief update: The estate agent phoned me on Tuesday to say that the mortgage lender had come back to the buyer at the bottom of the chain to say they were not happy with the issue that was queried. Apparently, it relates to something to do with the physical boundary of the property not matching the title plan, but got lost as to how. 

A suggestion has now been made that completion be allowed to happen now, with an undertaking from the solicitor to resolve the land issue after completion - this is because apparently it will be quite a complex problem to solve, involving finding another land owner, letting them get legal advice, signing over of land, getting land registry records updated, etc so could potentially add months to the sale. This would almost certainly result in the chain collapsing as I certainly wouldn't be willing to wait months further and I know the buyers at the bottom of the chain have an expiry date on their mortgage offer of beginning of August.

I'm not entirely sure who now needs to make the decision but we are now waiting for a decision as to whether this proposal is acceptable, but we shall see...

This is complex. 

The solicitor acting for the buyer's buyer's buyer is also acting for their lender.  The lender relies on the advice of the solicitor and the solicitor is not happy that the title plan doesn't match the physical boundary so has advised the lender of the discrepancy and the lender has decided not to lend until the discrepancy has been dealt with.  Bear in mind lenders can and do change their mind about whether to lend, even after a mortgage offer has been issued.

The easiest solution would be for the physical boundary to be moved to match the title plan, but does this mean the property's value is affected and therefore the property would need its price adjusting, together with a new mortgage offer at a lower/higher amount.

Or, was a piece of land not transferred when the property was last sold, which would involve obtaining a previous owner's agreement and signature on a new Transfer form to transfer the missing plot to the new owner?

Either way, this transaction won't move forward until this discrepancy is dealt with to the satisfaction of the solicitor and the lender, so unfortunately your transaction will have to wait, no matter how desperate you and the other buyers in the chain are and regardless of when your mortgage offers expire.

It is unlikely that a purchasing solicitor will agree to accept an Undertaking from the sellers solicitor to assist in any requisitions from Land Registry after completion (no matter what your EA tells you!).  At the moment it is the selling solicitor's problem.  The buying solicitor and the buying lender would be reluctant to make it their problem.

As I have said previously, I understand that the situation may be complex but at the end of the day, I cannot be expected to wait and wait indefinitely. Should a completely separate third party need to become involved in order to resolve the issue (whoever 'has' the land at present), this could drag on for several months, if not longer, by which time I could have re-marketed, sold and have the money in my bank. 

TBG01

gazfocus said:

Tiglet2 said:

gazfocus said:

Another brief update: The estate agent phoned me on Tuesday to say that the mortgage lender had come back to the buyer at the bottom of the chain to say they were not happy with the issue that was queried. Apparently, it relates to something to do with the physical boundary of the property not matching the title plan, but got lost as to how. 

A suggestion has now been made that completion be allowed to happen now, with an undertaking from the solicitor to resolve the land issue after completion - this is because apparently it will be quite a complex problem to solve, involving finding another land owner, letting them get legal advice, signing over of land, getting land registry records updated, etc so could potentially add months to the sale. This would almost certainly result in the chain collapsing as I certainly wouldn't be willing to wait months further and I know the buyers at the bottom of the chain have an expiry date on their mortgage offer of beginning of August.

I'm not entirely sure who now needs to make the decision but we are now waiting for a decision as to whether this proposal is acceptable, but we shall see...

This is complex. 

The solicitor acting for the buyer's buyer's buyer is also acting for their lender.  The lender relies on the advice of the solicitor and the solicitor is not happy that the title plan doesn't match the physical boundary so has advised the lender of the discrepancy and the lender has decided not to lend until the discrepancy has been dealt with.  Bear in mind lenders can and do change their mind about whether to lend, even after a mortgage offer has been issued.

The easiest solution would be for the physical boundary to be moved to match the title plan, but does this mean the property's value is affected and therefore the property would need its price adjusting, together with a new mortgage offer at a lower/higher amount.

Or, was a piece of land not transferred when the property was last sold, which would involve obtaining a previous owner's agreement and signature on a new Transfer form to transfer the missing plot to the new owner?

Either way, this transaction won't move forward until this discrepancy is dealt with to the satisfaction of the solicitor and the lender, so unfortunately your transaction will have to wait, no matter how desperate you and the other buyers in the chain are and regardless of when your mortgage offers expire.

It is unlikely that a purchasing solicitor will agree to accept an Undertaking from the sellers solicitor to assist in any requisitions from Land Registry after completion (no matter what your EA tells you!).  At the moment it is the selling solicitor's problem.  The buying solicitor and the buying lender would be reluctant to make it their problem.

As I have said previously, I understand that the situation may be complex but at the end of the day, I cannot be expected to wait and wait indefinitely. Should a completely separate third party need to become involved in order to resolve the issue (whoever 'has' the land at present), this could drag on for several months, if not longer, by which time I could have re-marketed, sold and have the money in my bank. 

No one is asking you to wait indefinitely. It's your decision to stay and just like the lender doesn't owe you anything, you owe no one in the chain anything by pulling out.

Tiglet2

gazfocus said:

Tiglet2 said:

gazfocus said:

Another brief update: The estate agent phoned me on Tuesday to say that the mortgage lender had come back to the buyer at the bottom of the chain to say they were not happy with the issue that was queried. Apparently, it relates to something to do with the physical boundary of the property not matching the title plan, but got lost as to how. 

A suggestion has now been made that completion be allowed to happen now, with an undertaking from the solicitor to resolve the land issue after completion - this is because apparently it will be quite a complex problem to solve, involving finding another land owner, letting them get legal advice, signing over of land, getting land registry records updated, etc so could potentially add months to the sale. This would almost certainly result in the chain collapsing as I certainly wouldn't be willing to wait months further and I know the buyers at the bottom of the chain have an expiry date on their mortgage offer of beginning of August.

I'm not entirely sure who now needs to make the decision but we are now waiting for a decision as to whether this proposal is acceptable, but we shall see...

This is complex. 

The solicitor acting for the buyer's buyer's buyer is also acting for their lender.  The lender relies on the advice of the solicitor and the solicitor is not happy that the title plan doesn't match the physical boundary so has advised the lender of the discrepancy and the lender has decided not to lend until the discrepancy has been dealt with.  Bear in mind lenders can and do change their mind about whether to lend, even after a mortgage offer has been issued.

The easiest solution would be for the physical boundary to be moved to match the title plan, but does this mean the property's value is affected and therefore the property would need its price adjusting, together with a new mortgage offer at a lower/higher amount.

Or, was a piece of land not transferred when the property was last sold, which would involve obtaining a previous owner's agreement and signature on a new Transfer form to transfer the missing plot to the new owner?

Either way, this transaction won't move forward until this discrepancy is dealt with to the satisfaction of the solicitor and the lender, so unfortunately your transaction will have to wait, no matter how desperate you and the other buyers in the chain are and regardless of when your mortgage offers expire.

It is unlikely that a purchasing solicitor will agree to accept an Undertaking from the sellers solicitor to assist in any requisitions from Land Registry after completion (no matter what your EA tells you!).  At the moment it is the selling solicitor's problem.  The buying solicitor and the buying lender would be reluctant to make it their problem.

As I have said previously, I understand that the situation may be complex but at the end of the day, I cannot be expected to wait and wait indefinitely. Should a completely separate third party need to become involved in order to resolve the issue (whoever 'has' the land at present), this could drag on for several months, if not longer, by which time I could have re-marketed, sold and have the money in my bank. 

No-one is expecting you to wait indefinitely.  There is a situation which needs to be resolved.  Yes, it could drag on for months.  You now have to decide what you want to do.  The choices are that you stay the course or you walk away and re-market.