Is this a potential Facebook scam and if so how would it work?

Tunstallstoven

Hi all

Sorry for another one of these threads!  I'm usually pretty good at sniffing out scams.  This latest situation doesn't smell quite right, but on the other hand I can't see how it would work as a scam...  

I have an item of furniture for sale and was contacted by someone who is very keen to buy it and in the opening message said they would be willing to pay full price and whatever postage to where he lives.  The messages went like this:

- I asked where he lives, how he would be pay, and what was he thinking RE courier
- He said he'll pay however I like and lives in ***
- I asked again about courier
- He said he's not bothered who is used as they are all similar price
- I asked for his address and asked if he would be happy with PayPal Friends and Family
- He gave address and said yes
- I said I would look into couriers over the weekend and let him know
- He said thanks
- But then sent another message saying he will send the money over anytime to secure the sale.  

I guess it's his keenness that has me suspicious!  But if he pays with PP F&F, and I am arranging the courier, and he has none of my details other that my Facebook profile, how could he scam me?  The way I see it it is him who would be vulnerable...

Any thoughts most appreciated.

Many thanks 

El_Torro

Paying with Paypal Friends & Family is a terrible idea for the buyer, great for the seller (i.e. you). Maybe they're just super keen to get the item you're selling and are not concerned about being scammed. 

Like you I can't see how this deal is bad for you, as long as you wait until you have the funds before paying for the courier. 

soolin

Paypal friends and family can be claimed back if buyer goes down a fraudulent use of a card rovia a bank. It is not a common scam and rarely seen in the wild , we've only had a couple of examples of it on here in all the years I've been posting, but it is possible.

usually a chargeback for fraudulent use is easily defended by a seller as paypal cover you if you prove you have sent it to the address given by paypal, within 7 days and have proof of delivery to that address. Paypal f and F has no address associated so seller has no way of defending it.

It is rarely done on low cost items though due to the effort required by the scammer.

The only other thing to watch for is the false paypal notification, that's easily spotted though as if there is no payment in your account then buyer hasn't paid, when questioned they go down the escrow route with paypal holding the money until shipping is proved, which is of course rubbish.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

soolin said:

usually a chargeback for fraudulent use is easily defended by a seller as paypal cover you if you prove you have sent it to the address given by paypal, within 7 days and have proof of delivery to that address. Paypal f and F has no address associated so seller has no way of defending it.

I don't think seller protection applies to Friends and Family as it's not intended to be used to sell stuff.

OP how far away is this person?

Have you suggested cash on delivery at £x per mile? 

If they agree to that they are probably genuine.

That said if something is making you feel uneasy it might be best to walk away, that temptation to grab a sale can sometimes lead to a poor decision  

Tunstallstoven

Thanks for all the replies.  

I know what you're saying about listening to your gut etc.  But at the same time I am a very cautious person with a sprinkling of paranoia, so at the same time I don't want to be over cautious and lose a sale!  He's 300 or so miles away so cash on delivery is not really an option unfortunately.    

Perhaps in the first instance I can get some Shiply quotes, share those with no promises, and see whether anything he does form that point raises suspicious.  

Thanks again

soolin

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

soolin said:

usually a chargeback for fraudulent use is easily defended by a seller as paypal cover you if you prove you have sent it to the address given by paypal, within 7 days and have proof of delivery to that address. Paypal f and F has no address associated so seller has no way of defending it.

I don't think seller protection applies to Friends and Family as it's not intended to be used to sell stuff.

OP how far away is this person?

Have you suggested cash on delivery at £x per mile? 

If they agree to that they are probably genuine.

That said if something is making you feel uneasy it might be best to walk away, that temptation to grab a sale can sometimes lead to a poor decision  

A chargeback via a bank for fraud trumps any buyer or seller protection, paypal have no choice but to pay the bank back and try and grab the money from seller. As per my rather confusing explanation, a seller has full protection with paypal for a g and s payment, but not for a F and F payment.

I've never had a F and F payment chargebacked for fraud, but I have had several G and s clawed back and defended each and every one of them by using my seller protection. AS mentioned though it is very rare as it is a difficult scam to pull off so probably unlikely to be used unless the item was high value.

cymruchris

You may find that you receive 'payment' via 'paypal' in the form of 'you'll get your money when the goods are confirmed as delivered' style, or some other 'fake' paypal payment. You're right o be wary. Have you checked the persons profile to see things like how old it is, what they've posted, how many friends they have, and checked out all the publicly visible information like where they worked etc. (I know not everyone fills it in - but it can add to the jigsaw of 'is this genuine?') Does the style of language used match the profile picture and location? (Again I know you can't 'judge' on one thing alone - but another piece of the jigsaw)

Is what you're selling something unusual or special? Or is it something that can be gotten all over the place for a similar price? Is yours worth the effort of getting? Or is it an average piece of regular furniture that you could get from anywhere? (And I'm not trying to demean your item - just balancing up whether the demand for what you're selling would be likely bought and shipped, or whether the buyer could pick up something very similar around the corner or across the road from where they live)

Tunstallstoven

Many thanks for the additional replies.  

To answer some of your questions and points @cymruchris ...

- I would definitely be sure to check my PP account to check I have the funds, rather than rely on some find of notification.

- Yes, I have checked the person's FB profile.  They've been a member for over a decade and have around 500 friends.  Normal kind of posts and photos on there that one would expect to see.  

- Yes, I would say that the profile matches the messages, although like you say it's hard to be sure on that.  Certainly the location on the profile matches the address I've been given, including an older photo in the timeline which is form the same area as the address.  

- Yes, the item is a little unusual and while you might find other similar things I doubt you'd ever find one exactly the same.  I think it is a nice item and can understand why if it floated someone's boat they might go a little above and beyond to get it.  

So all in all I think it seems quite legit tbh.  Just the keenness to buy and the fact they're making themselves vulnerable are what concern me, as I said before. 

Thanks again 

GrubbyGirl_2

Make sure you login to your paypal account and check the money is there, don't rely on email notifications

Tunstallstoven

Hi all

I left it a couple of days over the long weekend while the Shiply quotes came in.  Didn't hear from the buyer over that time, which is fair enough I guess as it had been left that I would get back to him with quotes.  3 days later he made contact to ask how things were progressing.  Potentially a good sign that he wasn't harassing and trying to move things on quickly?  

Since then we've been speaking some more.  He's happy with the courier quote, and in fact has offered to round up the total sum (which equates to an additional £15 or so).  Too good to be true?  

The other development is that he has asked to have it sent to a different address than I was first given (when I asked for one to be able to get quotes).  I queried this and he said it is a relative; because the sale has dragged on he will be working away by the time it is delivered and so would need it delivered elsewhere.  It's an address quite close to the original one.  

Not sure why I'm sharing this other than the potential that the new info may make it look better or worse?  

Guess I'm also curious as to whether anyone reading this would go ahead with the sale if you were in my shoes?  

Many thanks

subjecttocontract

I wouldnt. The last time I used a courier, he opened the back door of his van and put my extremely carefully wrapped, highly breakable package on the floor. It was the only parcel in the van and he didn't tie it down or restrain it so it was going to slide all over the van every time he took a corner. I've virtually given up with couriers unless they turn up and wrap the item before loading. Good luck.