Help with wiring in a new light fitting

ashe

I've bought a new light fitting for our hall, so have a couple of questions 

usual disclaimers apply eg electricity off and taking safety precautions etc however I want to do it myself. 

We currently have a bog standard plastic ceiling rose there, a photo of which is below. There is a connector block terminal with black and blue wires and an Earth point, but no wire to the terminal. 

I presume this is because the current fitting is plastic and therefore no need for an Earth connection, so I'd need to put a sleeved Earth cable in and wire up the other two wires to the new fitting? Instructions also below for reference. 

The current rose has two screws in there holding it up; but I imagine it's really light. the instructions state to make sure the supplied bracket gets screwed to a joist or use appropriate fixing to support the fitting. How do I know if there is a joist there? The hole is pretty small that the wires are coming through so can't really look at where the joist is; is it a case of just using some specific fixings in that case?

the two screws don't *quite* line up to where the existing screws are in the current plastic rose bracket. 


image of fitting and instructions below but looks fairly standard, just never fitted a light before - I've done a few switches and sockets though so it's not competent alien to me. 

Excuse appearance of the ceiling, it's not been painted yet. 

cajef

There appears to be a yellow/green earthing wire connected to the terminal on the left of that photo.

ashe

cajef said:

There appears to be a yellow/green earthing wire connected to the terminal on the left of that photo.

I presume that's just for any future fittings? As it doesn't go into the terminal block so no earth wire to take from to the terminal block? Probably didn't explain it well in my original post. 

So in my head I need to move that earth from where it is now to the terminal block, and then put the new sleeved earth from terminal block to the new light fittings terminal block?

CSI_Yorkshire

When you take the old ceiling rose off, you will have only cables coming through the ceiling - a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

The new fitting will accept a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

Where are you thinking of adding this extra "sleeved earth" and which terminal block (that isn't in the new light fitting) do you think will still be there?

ashe

CSI_Yorkshire said:

When you take the old ceiling rose off, you will have only cables coming through the ceiling - a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

The new fitting will accept a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

Where are you thinking of adding this extra "sleeved earth" and which terminal block (that isn't in the new light fitting) do you think will still be there?

I presumed I'd just be using the terminal block that is there already and some of the cable from the existing rose, but looking at it now it makes sense that is just connect up to what is there! 

As for fixings, any advice on either finding a joist or should I just be using plasterboard fixings?

CSI_Yorkshire

Have you tried tapping the ceiling and see if there is a big difference between which bits sound hollow and which don't?

The last few light fittings I've put up, I just assumed they weren't heavy enough to matter and I didn't really think about where they went - of course that is a risk that you might not choose to take.

ashe

I've just taken the old rose down and it looks like there is a bit of wood there so I will use that to screw to. Downside is the wire coming out of the ceiling is only about an inch or two long so getting into the new light fitting is going to be frustrating 

looking at the connector block, it's got the following configuration;

If I mirrored that on the new units connector block then there is no space for the earth?

Simonon77

ashe said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

When you take the old ceiling rose off, you will have only cables coming through the ceiling - a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

The new fitting will accept a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

Where are you thinking of adding this extra "sleeved earth" and which terminal block (that isn't in the new light fitting) do you think will still be there?

I presumed I'd just be using the terminal block that is there already and some of the cable from the existing rose, but looking at it now it makes sense that is just connect up to what is there! 

As for fixings, any advice on either finding a joist or should I just be using plasterboard fixings?

It depends on the weight of the new fitting. Normally plasterboard fittings will be fine, but it can also help if you can get at least one screw into a joist

ashe

Simonon77 said:

ashe said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

When you take the old ceiling rose off, you will have only cables coming through the ceiling - a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

The new fitting will accept a blue, a brown, and a green/yellow.

Where are you thinking of adding this extra "sleeved earth" and which terminal block (that isn't in the new light fitting) do you think will still be there?

I presumed I'd just be using the terminal block that is there already and some of the cable from the existing rose, but looking at it now it makes sense that is just connect up to what is there! 

As for fixings, any advice on either finding a joist or should I just be using plasterboard fixings?

It depends on the weight of the new fitting. Normally plasterboard fittings will be fine, but it can also help if you can get at least one screw into a joist

Think I'm good for that now as when taking the rose down there's a piece of wood where the screws were so I will screw directly into that; just need to make sure I get the wiring right now

Gavin83

You will typically have 4 cables running into a light fitting:

Live: The live cables for the main ring. These won't connect to the light fitting, just each other, which'll be the 2 red cables sharing a terminal in your picture.

Neutral: This'll connect to one side of the light fitting.

Switched Live: Is actually the neutral from the switch cable which controls the light going on and off when you flick the switch. This should really have a red sleeve over the cable but this is sometimes skipped, as it appears to be in your case.

Earth: Obvious!

So if your light fitting requires an earth then you'll actually need a terminal block with 4 connectors, one of which doesn't make direct contact with any of the lighting cables.

Your house wiring uses the old colours where as any new light fitting should use the new colours so the colours won't match. Use the following to convert:



Is it the lighting or are the wires on the existing light blue and black? I'll assume it's the light and they're blue and brown as they should be. In which case the brown should be the switched live and therefore the switched live will be that black cable on the left of your picture. I would at the very least wrap some electrical tape round it to help identify it in the future.

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician but I have fitted a number of lights in my own home.

In terms of actually attaching the light fitting to the ceiling, unless it's heavy fitting it to a joist is likely overkill and back covering. You'll be fine with some plugs in the plasterboard. Or use anchors if you're nervous.

ashe

Gavin83 said:

You will typically have 4 cables running into a light fitting:

Live: The live cables for the main ring. These won't connect to the light fitting, just each other, which'll be the 2 red cables sharing a terminal in your picture.

Neutral: This'll connect to one side of the light fitting.

Switched Live: Is actually the neutral from the switch cable which controls the light going on and off when you flick the switch. This should really have a red sleeve over the cable but this is sometimes skipped, as it appears to be in your case.

Earth: Obvious!

So if your light fitting requires an earth then you'll actually need a terminal block with 4 connectors, one of which doesn't make direct contact with any of the lighting cables.

Your house wiring uses the old colours where as any new light fitting should use the new colours so the colours won't match. Use the following to convert:



Is it the lighting or are the wires on the existing light blue and black? I'll assume it's the light and they're blue and brown as they should be. In which case the brown should be the switched live and therefore the switched live will be that black cable on the left of your picture. I would at the very least wrap some electrical tape round it to help identify it in the future.

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician but I have fitted a number of lights in my own home.

In terms of actually attaching the light fitting to the ceiling, unless it's heavy fitting it to a joist is likely overkill and back covering. You'll be fine with some plugs in the plasterboard. Or use anchors if you're nervous.

Thanks, there is a loose single block in the packaging so presume that is for the extra you mention

the wires in the pic are the existing light which are blue and black the new light has the following ;
 

Not entirely sure how I'm going to be able to screw the short wires in to that while holding the light but we'll see 😂 I've tried pulling them with a set of pliers but there isn't any give.