Historical standing charge electricity bill

mbmaidenhead

This is a bit of a saga, so bear with me.

My father was a partner in a small business partnership that owned and ran a commercial site, where the units were rented out to tenants.

Back in 2000 (23 years ago) one of the units was rented out to a new tenant. At that point, my father wrote to the electricity supplier (Southern Electric) with details of the tenancy, and that it was the tenants responsibility to pay for the electrics and they provided a final bill.

In 2010 the tenant had financial difficulties and left, but a new tenant took over the existing business, and moved in to the unit, initially under a licence, and then under a lease, (which stated they were responsible for payment of services including electricity)

In May 2022, dad's partnership was incorporated into a limited company, (I'm one of the shareholders) but the day to day business remained the same. 

In October 2022 my father passed away. He had severe dementia and had had no involvement in the running of the business for over 8 years

At the beginning of 2023, two months after he died we received an invoice from EDF for the meter concerned. The invoice is addressed to my father only, (not the other 2 partners and not the current business name.

The invoice states at the top: "Your first electricity bill"

The invoice is for a period 1st January 2010 - 01 January 2023 (thirteen years)

During this time, there is no usage of electricity on this invoice, (the estimated meter reading doesn't change) simply the standing charge and is a sum of over £3000.

Having done some investigations the following was found out:

the meter is live from the mains, but isn't connected to anything, it's been disconnected to anything within the building. The meter reading is the same as it was according to the start of this EDF bill in 2010.

the electricity for the current tenant has been supplied by a different meter since they moved in in 2010. But they too were sent invoices by EDF, culminating in a visit to their unit by electrical engineers who confirmed the meter wasn't supplying anything. This was in 2019  (4 years ago), and there was a lot of 'back and forth' before EDF gave up. At no point in this, did either EDF or the tenant contact us as landlords

It therefore seems as though at some point between 2000 and 2010, the tenant who had the unit at the time took over a new meter for supply of electricity and had their existing meter disconnected (though still live from the supplier). Having gone back through all the paperwork there is nothing to suggest why or how. Their business no longer exists. The last piece of paperwork that we have concerning this unit and it's electricity supply is the final invoice from Southern Electric twenty three years ago. 

I have had numerous discussions with EDF concerning this, made more complicated by them often refusing to talk to me because I'm not the named person on the bill, and despite explaining that they can't speak to the named person because he's dead, and that it's distressing that they continue to invoice my deceased dad, and despite them saying they will put a stop on the invoices until they investigate, they continue to send invoices for the full amount. I have also sent them dad's death certificate as proof, after they requested a copy of it, as I suspect they thought I was making it up. This didn't stop them sending invoices to him.

My questions are as follows:

Can EDF invoice for this period of time, or is there some statute of limitations ?

And given my dad passed away last year, and the partnership is no more,  is there any realistic way that they could claim the money anyway?

We don't really need the electricity meter, (it has after all done nothing for at least 13 years) though if needed we could possibly repurpose it for another unit.

Any help or suggestions and advice would be much appreciated. 


thanks for reading!

MWT

If the partnership was incorporated into the limited company along with its debts and assets, including the property in question, then the liability for the property now rests with the limited company.

However, failure to demand payment by way of an invoice or any other form of communication until now does render it impossible for the supplier to take court action to recover the debt relating to periods beyond 6 years ago...

It doesn't stop them from asking for payment, it just stops them being able to take action to enforce payment...

The limited company may have the option to recover the costs for the last 6 years from the 'new tenant' depending upon the wording in their lease, or even just point the energy company to the 'new tenant' and reference their responsibility for such charges under the lease...

InvertedVee

I have nothing to contribute except to commend @mbmaidenhead for a model question and @MWT for a model answer!

Keep_pedalling

MWT said:

The limited company may have the option to recover the costs for the last 6 years from the 'new tenant' depending upon the wording in their lease, or even just point the energy company to the 'new tenant' and reference their responsibility for such charges under the lease...

Might be a good way to loose a tenant. 

gbhxu

Doesn't the one year back billing limit apply?

MWT

gbhxu said:

Doesn't the one year back billing limit apply?

No, that covers energy use, not standing charges.

MWT

Keep_pedalling said:

MWT said:

The limited company may have the option to recover the costs for the last 6 years from the 'new tenant' depending upon the wording in their lease, or even just point the energy company to the 'new tenant' and reference their responsibility for such charges under the lease...

Might be a good way to loose a tenant. 

I wouldn't be surprised if it is the tenant that tried to duck the charges by pointing the supplier at the landlord in the first place...

In any event these are matters of contract between the parties, so it will come down to the wording of the lease.

mbmaidenhead

MWT said:

If the partnership was incorporated into the limited company along with its debts and assets, including the property in question, then the liability for the property now rests with the limited company.

However, failure to demand payment by way of an invoice or any other form of communication until now does render it impossible for the supplier to take court action to recover the debt relating to periods beyond 6 years ago...

It doesn't stop them from asking for payment, it just stops them being able to take action to enforce payment...

The limited company may have the option to recover the costs for the last 6 years from the 'new tenant' depending upon the wording in their lease, or even just point the energy company to the 'new tenant' and reference their responsibility for such charges under the lease...

Thanks for the response!

On the first point, would this still be the case even if there had been no invoice raised by the time of incorporation ?

The 6 years is unfortunate as the bulk of the cost is from the last few years, where the standing charge went up to 80p a day(!!) from 14.2p a day. Are they able to increase this figure this dramatically without notification at the time, and could we ask them to show proof that this was done?

And yes, having originally taken over the unit under licence,, the wording is such that the new tenant is responsible for any outstanding service costs from the previous tenant. I guess I feel that would be a little harsh given they assumed they only had one supply, which they still use and pay for, and not this additional one that the previous tenant seemingly disconnected from. 

mbmaidenhead

MWT said:

Keep_pedalling said:

MWT said:

The limited company may have the option to recover the costs for the last 6 years from the 'new tenant' depending upon the wording in their lease, or even just point the energy company to the 'new tenant' and reference their responsibility for such charges under the lease...

Might be a good way to loose a tenant. 

I wouldn't be surprised if it is the tenant that tried to duck the charges by pointing the supplier at the landlord in the first place...

In any event these are matters of contract between the parties, so it will come down to the wording of the lease.

The conversation between EDF and the tenant was in 2019. I am surprised that neither the tenant nor EDF looked in our direction at that point, but apparently it took a further 3 and half years...

MWT

mbmaidenhead said:

And yes, having originally taken over the unit under licence,, the wording is such that the new tenant is responsible for any outstanding service costs from the previous tenant. I guess I feel that would be a little harsh given they assumed they only had one supply, which they still use and pay for, and not this additional one that the previous tenant seemingly disconnected from. 

As long as you are happy that the wording makes the tenant liable for the energy charges at the premises I really wouldn't suggest you get involved beyond confirming that to EDF and let them sort it out with the tenant.

If the tenant was receiving invoices from EDF and ignoring them then EDF have a strong case for getting their payment.

Do you know when they first received an invoice from EDF? (..or was 2019 the first point of contact?)