Chargeback Advice

Piuzzo

Hello All,

In May 2022 I sucessfully submitted a chargeback via Tesco Credit Card (Mastercard) against a car hire company in Italy.

The company wrongly billed me for damage I didn't create and I had photographic / email proof of this and the fact informed them.

The claim was successful and the money refunded.

I heard nothing more - until today when I received a letter from an Italian legal company (text below).

Tesco Credit Card Customer Service say to ignore it as it's likely posturing but is this advice acceptable?

Thanks 

Letter Contents:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write this letter on behalf of Sicily By Car S.p.A. (herein referred to as SBC).

As per Sicily by Car Chargeback Department communication already sent to your Credit Card

Company, you opened a file with the International Credit Circuits claiming you should have not been

charged for the amount of € 758.04 related to your file RDS 28220150 RA 280065481. Being a

mediator and not getting to the heart of the question, the International Credit Circuit has refunded you

the amount you were charged for by Sicily by Car.

In light of the above, after double checking your case with the competent office in this matter, we

confirm once again that the charge of € 758.04 is compliant with the rental agreement conditions

subscribed by you.

Therefore, we invite you to issue an order for payment of € 758.04 by bank wire using the here below

account number and reporting, as reason for payment, the RDS xxxxxx (bank details edited for security)

SICILY BY CAR SPA --- BANK DETAILS - UNICREDIT :

IBAN: ITxxxxxx0 SWIFT UNCRITM1I67   (bank details edited for security)

If we do not receive the above payment within 5 working days after receipt of this letter, we will have

no option but to undertake the most appropriate actions for the protection of the rights of Sicily by

Car SpA increased with legal expenses and interest.

Yours faithfully,

Atty. Giuseppe Bianco

(on behalf of Sicily by Car S.p.A)

marcia_

 I would ignore them and if they choose to take you to Court you say you have evidence that refutes their claims to defend the case. 

Piuzzo

Thanks for the reply. 

Tesco say the car hire’s dispute isn’t with me but Mastercard now. 

Is this true?

Can I realistically be chased and taken to court? 

I have a house in Italy so visit often so don’t want to get arrested at the airport :0)

marcia_

 No they can take you to court here or in Italy. They claim you owe money you say you have evidence that is not true so could go in your favour in court. But could go their way and you have to pay the money plus court costs and if in the uk have a ccj if you don't pay up.

 No idea on Italy's position on debt so no idea how it will impact you there 

 depends how strong your evidence is and if you are able to attend Court to defend it. 

 I would defend it myself if it ever got that far. They might just write a few letters and give up

born_again

Piuzzo said:

Thanks for the reply. 

Tesco say the car hire’s dispute isn’t with me but Mastercard now. 

Is this true?

Can I realistically be chased and taken to court? 

I have a house in Italy so visit often so don’t want to get arrested at the airport :0)

The chargeback is with no one. As retailer only has 45 days to contest. After that it is effect done & dusted.

Yes, any company that your chargeback & do not contest can take you to court to reclaim the funds. As chargebacks are over & above your legal consumer rights & have no legal standing, as they are just card regulations.

Car hire co, tend not not contest. Just go legal to reclaim the funds they think are owed.

Have a look at this site.
https://www.ecrcs.com/

It is another way to contest a car hire dispute & is binding on them. 

Piuzzo

said:

Piuzzo said:

Thanks for the reply. 

Tesco say the car hire’s dispute isn’t with me but Mastercard now. 

Is this true?

Can I realistically be chased and taken to court? 

I have a house in Italy so visit often so don’t want to get arrested at the airport :0)

The chargeback is with no one. As retailer only has 45 days to contest. After that it is effect done & dusted.

Yes, any company that your chargeback & do not contest can take you to court to reclaim the funds. As chargebacks are over & above your legal consumer rights & have no legal standing, as they are just card regulations.

Car hire co, tend not not contest. Just go legal to reclaim the funds they think are owed.

Have a look at this site.
(Link removed so I could post)

It is another way to contest a car hire dispute & is binding on them. 

Thanks.  It looks like my car hire company isn’t listed as subscribing to the ecrcs service (Sicily By Car). 

So ultimately, how likely are they to take me to court etc?

 Whilst I have evidence that my CC company agreed with, how likely this is to win a court battle is naturally unclear (even though I firmly believe the damage was on the car already).

 Should I just pay up or see if they chase me further ?

 It’s unlikely I could be expected to attend court in Italy so it may just get written off after a bit of huffing and puffing ?

Has anyone ever been prosecuted like this that we know of? 

DullGreyGuy

Piuzzo said:

Tesco Credit Card Customer Service say to ignore it as it's likely posturing but is this advice acceptable?

Its totally inappropriate for Tesco's to be giving you legal advice, which is good because you can do what they say and then complain to them and the FOS if their advice turns out to be bad.

Chargebacks are not an end solution, banks are not courts of law so what their decision is is totally irrelevant but helpfully it moves the ball ache and initial costs of litigation away from you to the merchant (assuming you win the chargeback). Many merchants wont litigate because the cost for a company to hire solicitors etc will not stack up against the risk of losing in court (solicitor fees cannot be recovered in the English small claims) but some decide its worth a punt either because they believe they have a strong case or its a small business with a owner who take it personally rather than taking a commercial decision.

Ultimately its up to you how much you want to engage, almost certainly the court case will be in Italy (if it gets that far) which you'll presumably lose because you dont want to travel there and even if you do you dont speak Italian. You'd therefore need to understand Italian law on adding recovery costs to the value of the claim as international debt recovery is typically painful and costly.

Realistically, the chances are Tesco's advice is true and it wont go anywhere but still wasn't right for them to give legal advice.

Piuzzo

DullGreyGuy said:

Piuzzo said:

Tesco Credit Card Customer Service say to ignore it as it's likely posturing but is this advice acceptable?

Its totally inappropriate for Tesco's to be giving you legal advice, which is good because you can do what they say and then complain to them and the FOS if their advice turns out to be bad.

Chargebacks are not an end solution, banks are not courts of law so what their decision is is totally irrelevant but helpfully it moves the ball ache and initial costs of litigation away from you to the merchant (assuming you win the chargeback). Many merchants wont litigate because the cost for a company to hire solicitors etc will not stack up against the risk of losing in court (solicitor fees cannot be recovered in the English small claims) but some decide its worth a punt either because they believe they have a strong case or its a small business with a owner who take it personally rather than taking a commercial decision.

Ultimately its up to you how much you want to engage, almost certainly the court case will be in Italy (if it gets that far) which you'll presumably lose because you dont want to travel there and even if you do you dont speak Italian. You'd therefore need to understand Italian law on adding recovery costs to the value of the claim as international debt recovery is typically painful and costly.

Realistically, the chances are Tesco's advice is true and it wont go anywhere but still wasn't right for them to give legal advice.

Ok - so if you were in my situation what would you do?  I won’t take it as legal advice etc but would you pay up or just see what happens? 

marcia_

Piuzzo said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Piuzzo said:

Tesco Credit Card Customer Service say to ignore it as it's likely posturing but is this advice acceptable?

Its totally inappropriate for Tesco's to be giving you legal advice, which is good because you can do what they say and then complain to them and the FOS if their advice turns out to be bad.

Chargebacks are not an end solution, banks are not courts of law so what their decision is is totally irrelevant but helpfully it moves the ball ache and initial costs of litigation away from you to the merchant (assuming you win the chargeback). Many merchants wont litigate because the cost for a company to hire solicitors etc will not stack up against the risk of losing in court (solicitor fees cannot be recovered in the English small claims) but some decide its worth a punt either because they believe they have a strong case or its a small business with a owner who take it personally rather than taking a commercial decision.

Ultimately its up to you how much you want to engage, almost certainly the court case will be in Italy (if it gets that far) which you'll presumably lose because you dont want to travel there and even if you do you dont speak Italian. You'd therefore need to understand Italian law on adding recovery costs to the value of the claim as international debt recovery is typically painful and costly.

Realistically, the chances are Tesco's advice is true and it wont go anywhere but still wasn't right for them to give legal advice.

Ok - so if you were in my situation what would you do?  I won’t take it as legal advice etc but would you pay up or just see what happens? 

 I wouldn't pay. They will probably write a few letters then drop it as any Court action costs them more money

DullGreyGuy

Piuzzo said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Piuzzo said:

Tesco Credit Card Customer Service say to ignore it as it's likely posturing but is this advice acceptable?

Its totally inappropriate for Tesco's to be giving you legal advice, which is good because you can do what they say and then complain to them and the FOS if their advice turns out to be bad.

Chargebacks are not an end solution, banks are not courts of law so what their decision is is totally irrelevant but helpfully it moves the ball ache and initial costs of litigation away from you to the merchant (assuming you win the chargeback). Many merchants wont litigate because the cost for a company to hire solicitors etc will not stack up against the risk of losing in court (solicitor fees cannot be recovered in the English small claims) but some decide its worth a punt either because they believe they have a strong case or its a small business with a owner who take it personally rather than taking a commercial decision.

Ultimately its up to you how much you want to engage, almost certainly the court case will be in Italy (if it gets that far) which you'll presumably lose because you dont want to travel there and even if you do you dont speak Italian. You'd therefore need to understand Italian law on adding recovery costs to the value of the claim as international debt recovery is typically painful and costly.

Realistically, the chances are Tesco's advice is true and it wont go anywhere but still wasn't right for them to give legal advice.

Ok - so if you were in my situation what would you do?  I won’t take it as legal advice etc but would you pay up or just see what happens? 

They are giving you advice on what to do about a solicitors letter... that is almost certainly going to be considered legal advice for which the agent is neither qualified nor authorised to give.

Were it me, I'd consider it posturing at this point and simply ignore it unless court papers arrive.  

born_again

No banks staff are in a position to give legal advice. As they are not trained in any way on this. You have to be very careful what you say. If as this rep said
"Tesco Credit Card Customer Service say to ignore it as it's likely posturing but is this advice acceptable?"

Would be worthy of a complaint.
As the rep should never be saying anything like this at all. If my manager heard me say that, I would be off the phone faster than you can say it & having a serious kick up the backside. For putting the bank in such a position. As if you followed the advice & got arrested in Italy. They would be subject to a very large payout in your direction.

What you do, I'm afraid is very much in your court. Do they know you have a Italian address?
Like above, until some actual court papers arrive, you could consider it posturing. But you would not be able to use that hire co again, and be very careful on any other hire, to make sure that they are not part of the same group.
Could even find that you can not get car hire in the area, depending on how they share data.