neglected garden, hoping for lawn/scarifying etc advice.

me1000uk

HI All

Just trying to sort out my garden as previous owner didn't really care for it much. 
I don't think it's ever been scarified (and I didn't even know what that was until google but seems needed). Also feels like a rewarding thing to get into. Also investing in the tools that I'll need to use regularly.

Hoping any lawn aficionados can give me some tips for DIYing . I'll summarise below with questions and hopefully can be slightly more informed. I'm ok with some heavy lifting and will be getting a relative to assist as it likely is a 2 person job. Not looking for perfection, just wanting it to be nicer and usable with more regular care after the first intensive bit.

I'm in Scotland so there should be plenty of rain (albeit a bit of an unusual dry run past few days!.

2 main patches of grass, maybe 1 is 50m2 and another 20m2. 
Another strip that is on one side of the house lined by largish trees (coniferous? pine cones and loads of debris from those green needly leaves which I think is cypress?) Apologies for not knowing my species.
The 2 patches have daisies and dandelions and whatnot, with grass that grows slowly. The strip with trees is squishy and mossy with leaf debris and has some bumps from the roots of the trees.

Going to rent a petrol scarifier for a weekend but want to do any prep in advance. I have a mower and a strimmer and will also get a rake and fork and a cheap rolling seed spreader.

1) I assume the protocol is to apply something to kill weed and moss and also rake out the debris, followed by scarifying and seed/feed?
2) Is it feasible to use a spray weed and moss liquid then start the scarifying a week or two later. I have seen iron sulphate online but whilst a combo product may be less efficient, maybe for domestic use it'll do something?
3) When I apply seeds post scarifying, do I apply a fertiliser or should that wait, or do I reap the effects of the combo weed/moss liquid that probably has some fertiliser in it?
4) What kind of rake is recommended for gathering the debris, and also as a bonus help with these annoying confier needle things as they are quite small. Would a cheap leaf rake do or should I get like a landscaping rake. 
5) The treelined bit which is a bit shaded and has tree roots, is it normal to just scarify in between?

Appreciate any tips in case I'm complicating things or anything I've missed. Thanks again as I know this is a long post!.

Postik

I'm by no means an expert but here's my experience:

1) Yes I think ideally you should kill the weeds and moss first.

2) I've only ever used the weed, feed and moss killer granuals from Wilko but the moss is usually dead a week or two later.  If you use the granuals then the spreader is worth investing in because otherwise it's very easy to over fertilise when doing it by hand.  Also don't leave the spreader on your patio like I did because when it rains and gets wet the granuals stain paving!

3) I'm not sure how long you're supposed to wait before seeding after applying the weed/moss killer.  Not sure if its days or weeks.  But obviously if you leave it too long and have big patches the weeds can soon take hold again.  I heard you should not fertilise when seeding because it doesn't encourage the roots of the new seeds to go deeper if there are lots of nutrients close to the surface.

4) When I've scarified by hand I've just used one of the fan shaped lawn rakes.  It's increibly hard work though.  My father has an electric scarifier and I'm sure that collects everything up in the same way as a lawn mower.  If I used a petrol or electric scarifier I wouldn't bother raking, I would let it collect all of the debris.

5) I would scarify in between and perhaps do any awkward to reach sections by hand with a rake.  Wear gloves or you will have blisters by the end!

You probably know already, but your lawn will look absolutely abysmal after scarifying.  I remember I did my front lawn once and by the end of it there didn't appear to be much grass left.  But after over-seeding it, it was lush and thick again in no time.

I'm not sure you need the roller if you're over-seeding.  I used one when creating a brand new lawn just to gently press the seed into the soil, but for overseeding I tend to scatter the seed on and then give it a very light covering of compost to stop the birds getting to it so easily.

Good luck

ashe

me1000uk said:

HI All

Just trying to sort out my garden as previous owner didn't really care for it much. 
I don't think it's ever been scarified (and I didn't even know what that was until google but seems needed). Also feels like a rewarding thing to get into. Also investing in the tools that I'll need to use regularly.

Hoping any lawn aficionados can give me some tips for DIYing . I'll summarise below with questions and hopefully can be slightly more informed. I'm ok with some heavy lifting and will be getting a relative to assist as it likely is a 2 person job. Not looking for perfection, just wanting it to be nicer and usable with more regular care after the first intensive bit.

I'm in Scotland so there should be plenty of rain (albeit a bit of an unusual dry run past few days!.

2 main patches of grass, maybe 1 is 50m2 and another 20m2. 
Another strip that is on one side of the house lined by largish trees (coniferous? pine cones and loads of debris from those green needly leaves which I think is cypress?) Apologies for not knowing my species.
The 2 patches have daisies and dandelions and whatnot, with grass that grows slowly. The strip with trees is squishy and mossy with leaf debris and has some bumps from the roots of the trees.

Going to rent a petrol scarifier for a weekend but want to do any prep in advance. I have a mower and a strimmer and will also get a rake and fork and a cheap rolling seed spreader.

1) I assume the protocol is to apply something to kill weed and moss and also rake out the debris, followed by scarifying and seed/feed?



2) Is it feasible to use a spray weed and moss liquid then start the scarifying a week or two later. I have seen iron sulphate online but whilst a combo product may be less efficient, maybe for domestic use it'll do something?
3) When I apply seeds post scarifying, do I apply a fertiliser or should that wait, or do I reap the effects of the combo weed/moss liquid that probably has some fertiliser in it?
4) What kind of rake is recommended for gathering the debris, and also as a bonus help with these annoying confier needle things as they are quite small. Would a cheap leaf rake do or should I get like a landscaping rake. 
5) The treelined bit which is a bit shaded and has tree roots, is it normal to just scarify in between?

Appreciate any tips in case I'm complicating things or anything I've missed. Thanks again as I know this is a long post!.

1. Yes. I would use weedol - this will kill majority of weeds although it is not instant, and takes a while to act - but it does last a long time and does not kill the grass. It doesn't do anything for moss 

2. Id avoid combos like 4in1 etc, it's hard to get dosing right and people often burn their lawns with them. Weedol for weeds, iron sulphate for moss, and a fertiliser for the lawn. 

I'd use liquid iron sulphate and apply when it's wet, section garden off and don't spray too near the patio or anything. As listed says above it will stain patio and anything else - grass a no go zone for a few days as kids or pets walking inside woo cause chaos. I'd bag over shoes and take bags off before stepping off the lawn 

a1 lawn fertiliser is good or if you want a cheap solution use miracle gro

3) few weeks between killer and seeding, and if fertilising you can get pre-seed ones and then don't fertilise until established 

there are weak things you can add to lawn like seaweed or chicken manure pellets 

4) you want one with sharp scratchy tines on it to pull the moss out. For £50 or so you can get an electric "scarifier"; they're not really scarifiers though more of a power rake. Don't be too aggressive with it as it'll rip out half the lawn on th a lower settings but keep it high and leave the collection bag off less you'll be filling it after every row 

afterwards either rake up the clippings or use a mower to hoover them up if you have the right sort; or get a cheap shop vac 

5) should be ok unless they're surface level. 

You'll need a shady grass to do walk around trees and roots due to shade and competition for water - even then it can be a challenge 

Go on Facebook and join the uk lawn care group and browse you'll find hundreds of people asking the same questions so loads of good advice and info on there 

JohnJ76

I'd say on the tree lined bit (without seeing it) you could be in for a real long term struggle and personally I think that unless it is of real value as a strip of grass I'd do something else with it in terms of planting rather than trying to have a lawn there. There are lots of lovely plants that would grow happily and you wouldnt spend loads of time every year fighting moss, shade problems, poor soil conditions etc I have learned that sometimes grass is just not worth the effort when conditions dont suit it, life is too short! 

me1000uk

Thank you all for your comments, so it's reassuring that it seems the strategy logical. As mentioned I will rent the scarifier for the first go as it likely will need something high powered. After that will consider cheaper electric options as an investment.

prior to that will see what I can rake up and apply the iron sulphate liquid and selective weed killer at different times.

Thanks again and if anyone has spotted a big error or note of caution it's all very appreciated.

EssexExile

Many years ago I was buying loads of treatments for the lawn and spending hours trying to make it look nice. Then I discovered lawn care experts. No hard work and cheaper than buying the treatments yourself.

Eldi_Dos

@me1000uk.
I am on east coast of Scotland and agree it has been unusually dry season so far.

I scarified front lawn yesterday and intend to give it second going over tomorrow and think it is too late and dry a season to put any  chemicals/ treatments on now if you intend to overseed.
What I intend to do is after second scarifying will be overseed lawn and water for the first couple of weeks and keep mower set high (60mm) for the rest of season.
In September  I would hope to get Autumn Lawn Care on if new grass is sufficiently grown by then.

If you are looking for a manual scarifier I can recommend a Magnusson Lawn Scarifier but it would be better to use machine for first treatment as it is hard work doing it manually.

me1000uk

Eldi_Dos said:

@me1000uk.
I am on east coast of Scotland and agree it has been unusually dry season so far.

I scarified front lawn yesterday and intend to give it second going over tomorrow and think it is too late and dry a season to put any  chemicals/ treatments on now if you intend to overseed.
What I intend to do is after second scarifying will be overseed lawn and water for the first couple of weeks and keep mower set high (60mm) for the rest of season.
In September  I would hope to get Autumn Lawn Care on if new grass is sufficiently grown by then.

If you are looking for a manual scarifier I can recommend a Magnusson Lawn Scarifier but it would be better to use machine for first treatment as it is hard work doing it manually.

Thank you all for your feedback
I'm on the west coast so bound to get wet soon
Just wondering if some of these selective weedkillers are compatible with overseeding sooner, say a couple of weeks or something. 

If not I guess does it make sense to use the scarifier for most debris removal and deal with weeds once things have recovered as I will have shifted the balance somewhat towards a better lawn?

EssexExile said:

Many years ago I was buying loads of treatments for the lawn and spending hours trying to make it look nice. Then I discovered lawn care experts. No hard work and cheaper than buying the treatments yourself.

Thanks. I presume 'lawn care experts' is essentially hiring a pro rather than the name of a product or company. Makes sense tbh but other than rakes and forks which will be re-used often, the only expense for me would be using a petrol scarifier rented for a day for a model 10-20 times the price of rental, and obviously the seeds and treatments which come in smaller packs as required. Most garden professionals near me charge quite a fair bit for simpler jobs. Maybe you have a good supplier.

Eldi_Dos

@me1000uk
The way a lot of these weed and feed products for lawns work is they have a pre emergent herbicide in the product. What this does is it stops weed seeds from germinating but this will interfere with grass seed germinating if seed applied to soon.

At this time of the year I would say there are two choices, scarify lawn then apply a weed and feed  product and wait till September before doing overseeding, or scarify lawn and overseed then wait till September and use a Autumn Lawn Care product.

Wait until you have done the scarifying and see how lawn looks before deciding which course to take.

Yorkie1

Useful article from the RHS about starting a lawn: https://www.rhs.org.uk/lawns/lawns-from-seed

I would avoid putting down seed if it's too warm - it can inhibit germination (as well as dry out too quickly)

theoretica

I suggest you look into aerating the lawn too - either by hand or hiring a combined scarifier and aerator.  Lots of dandelions are said to be a sign of compacted soil.